Hittin' the Bricks with Kathleen

Seeds of Revolution: The French, the British and the Indians

• Kathleen Brandt • Episode 2657

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Episode Overview

Hittin’ the Bricks with Kathleen is a podcast centered on genealogy, local history, and understanding how large historical events leave long shadows in family records. In this episode, host Kathleen Brandt examines how the French and Indian War (1754–1763) created ripple effects that appear decades later as mystery migrations, unexpected pensions, and land grants that confuse modern researchers.

This episode focuses on how early military service, shifting alliances, and uneven record-keeping before the American Revolution shaped family trees in ways that are often misattributed or overlooked.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn

  • Why the French and Indian War explains many unexplained family movements
  • How service records before 1775 differ from Revolutionary War documentation
  • The distinctions between provincial troops, militias, and British regulars
  • Where to find overlooked military and civil records tied to early service
  • How land grants and pensions often trace back to this earlier conflict

Topics Covered

  • French and Indian War timeline and geographic scope
  • Fragmented colonial record-keeping before 1775
  • Provincial troops vs. militia vs. British regular forces
  • Native nations as military allies and the unequal rewards they received
  • African American service, injury, and paths to manumission
  • Muster rolls, pay lists, council minutes, and court records
  • George Washington’s papers as an early name index
  • Bounty land in Virginia and North Carolina
  • Interpreting Revolutionary War pension files
  • Population movement before formal paperwork exists

Episode Discussion & Key Moments

Kathleen traces how the French and Indian War laid the groundwork for later political revolution while quietly reshaping families across colonial America. She explains why records from this period often appear scattered, incomplete, or indirect—and why researchers must widen their search beyond standard military files.

The episode breaks down practical strategies for locating provincial troop records, militia references, council decisions, and court mentions, as well as how to use George Washington’s papers as a gateway to otherwise hidden names. Kathleen also addresses how Native nations and African Americans participated in the conflict, often receiving delayed, unequal, or poorly documented compensation.

Key questions examined include:

  • Why do some ancestors appear to surface suddenly in Revolutionary records?
  • How did earlier wars move families long before pensions or land grants were issued?
  • What kinds of documents quietly preserve evidence of service?

Resources & Research Starting Points

  • Provincial troop muster rolls and pay lists
  • Colonial council and court minutes
  • George Washington’s papers
  • Virginia and North Carolina bounty land records
  • Revolutionary War pension files (read every page)

Why This Episode Matters

Many genealogical puzzles attributed to the American Revolution actually begin earlier. Understanding the French and Indian War helps researchers correctly interpret migration, land ownership, military service, and delayed benefits—allowing family histories to be

Be sure to bookmark linktr.ee/hittinthebricks for your one stop access to Kathleen Brandt, the host of Hittin' the Bricks with Kathleen. And, visit us on YouTube: @HTBKRB with Kathleen John and Chewey video recorded specials.

Hittin' the Bricks is produced through the not-for-profit, 501c3 TracingAncestors.org.

John:

Ladies and gentlemen from the depths of flyover country in the heartland of America, that's Kansas City on the other side of the mighty Mo. Welcome to Hitting the Bricks with Kathleen, the Do-It-Yourself Genealogy podcast, with your questions and her answers. I am John, your humble hubby host, and today we'll be talking about brick walls and the French and Indian War. There's a lot to cover, so let's start hitting the bricks. Okay. You ready?

Kathleen:

Yes, yes, I'm ready. What about you? Phones off? No.

John:

But happy new year. Okay, so today to start the new year off, we're we're gonna we we have a starter topic, don't we? Uh it is a starter topic. Yeah, we're we're gonna talk about the the French and Indian War. Or is it the French and Indian or French and Native American or French and First Nations?

Kathleen:

Where would it still call the French and Indian War on America's soil?

John:

On one side of the Atlantic, it's called the Seven Years' War. Exactly.

Kathleen:

That's it. It's the Atlantic.

John:

It's the Atlantic that made all the difference in the world. And I guess, too, the French and Indian War would be a contributing cause probably to the Revolutionary War.

Kathleen:

That is correct. Two, it I actually fed right into it. We're pretty much talking about the same players. The problem is genealogists forget about the French and Indian, which is one of their early colonial brick walls issue, is that they didn't research far enough. They want us to always start with a revolutionary war for some reason.

John:

You know, for some reason, I think, is American education. Um Pilgrims landed and then we had a revolution.

Kathleen:

Sure. There was a lot of years between that. There was a lot between that. Then we had to say that. The truth is a lot of people think once they hit the Revolutionary War, they're done. Unless for some reason they think there was a Mayflower. But they also forget that there was a French and Indian War. And they definitely should be checking it because if you were here in the Mayflower, some ancestors had a part in the French and Indian War. So it's a matter of people stopping their research too soon.

John:

What was it about? Why why couldn't the French and the Indians just get along?

Kathleen:

The French and the Indians got along great.

John:

Right.

Kathleen:

That's not what the war was about.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Hey.

Kathleen:

It was the Seven Years' War overseas because it was the French and the British.

John:

They're really scapegoating the Indians. It's really the French and the British fighting over land they occupied, basically.

Kathleen:

Am I getting meaning it yes, not only in Europe, but also in the colonies over here in North America. Okay. So where the Indians come in, it's the Indians took sides. There were the Indians who were fighting and were pro-Brit British. Then there were the trade Indians, like their oh, Iroquois. They really were fighting with the French. So the French and Indian War is really talking about the French and their Native Americans that were fighting with them and were their allies.

John:

Got it. Is it Iroquois or Iroquois?

Kathleen:

They both seem to be the correct version in English. Yeah, potato potato. Right. They called themselves the Hodenochene.

John:

Okay, so what uh Revolutionary Wars, 1775, 76. Where is the seven years of the French and Indian War? When is that, I should say?

Kathleen:

In North America, it was from 1754 to 1763. That's not quite the same dates as it is in Europe. It still ended in 1763, but it actually started prior.

John:

Well, they they were probably arguing at parties much, much earlier than that. So they're arguing over resources, like in the Ohio Valley and in all well, all the all the colonies, of course, right?

Kathleen:

Yes. No, the the British colonies were pretty established. But then you had Canada coming in. They had a la a large territory of the United States, which people forget. And because of that, they were trying to protect their territory, which is that Ohio Valley area that you're referring to. Is Canada Canada? When was it named Canada? 1535, John. I believe that's the time frame. And so Canada was pretty established.

John:

Okay. Yeah, I would think so. Well, boy, we had to look like a bunch of upstarts rolling in here and acting like uh, I mean, I I'm saying we, but as in the British had to be the British. The Canada, I mean, the French had to be like, dude, we've been there since the 1500s. You're just rolling up in here and acting like it's your territory.

Kathleen:

Jean, remember before all of this was going on, we also had the we had not only the French, we had the Spanish. And then the British, they actually declared their colonies, their territories, and populated those, and then they wanted more. So it's a typical war of greed, territory, all the fun stuff that all the fun stuff that we've never fight about now.

John:

Never, ever. Right. Okay, so sorry, I derailed everything with that conversation about K. That's okay. No. You've mentioned that uh genealogists stop researching too soon. Uh why? Other than I know that why I would quit, because I'd be like, okay, enough already. Um I'm just a lazy researcher. I get why I'd quit, but why do other genealogists fail on the Revolutionary War?

Kathleen:

It's not because they're like you and a lazy researcher, John. It is really because the records change shape. With the Revolutionary War, remember, we're becoming a nation. So those records are now more federal. We're keeping track of the money under our regime. So it's collated better. It's collated, it's easy to read, you know where to go to find it. And all the national archives, and you have your state archives, you have your militia in a certain place. French and Indian war is not like that.

John:

Okay, so it it's just scattered about. No centralized location for it.

Kathleen:

And not just in the United States, some of the information is back in the UK because there were all kinds of fighters. Right.

John:

Okay, so it would be well, it was a British war. So they would have the British regulars, I'm assuming.

Kathleen:

Exactly.

John:

So those records they would have been in the United States, but all their records would be in Britain, right? The people we fought later.

Kathleen:

And the the British regulars actually, after the French and Indian War, mostly returned to Britain because and were stationed wherever they were placed. Those records are there, but there are also other British people who came here in America for hire called provincial troops.

John:

Okay.

Kathleen:

And those records are available, but where they are is always going to be surprising. Okay. They are going to be in diaries, they're going to be under certain kinds of colonial documents where the council had a rule of how much money they had to hire these people. Oh, so you can't start digging. Right. It's not centralized and it's per colony, per regiment, and whatever financial or fiduciary uh control someone had.

John:

So you really you really have to focus on if you're researching an ancestor and you're in the French and Indian War, you really have to get down to the granular level of the history, and specifically the history in the individual colony and their interactions. So you're back to like muster roles of where did they uh collect people before they went out.

Kathleen:

Now that is just the British, the two sets of British people. British regulars, their records are overseas, but those people probably did not stay with the United States. They might have come back to fight in the Revolutionary War, and then maybe have stayed afterwards. But those normally are not our just our ancestors in America. Then you have the provincial troops, and yes, they came over and a lot of them stayed. They didn't they decided, yeah, we were fighting against uh Britain on the second war, the which was the Revolutionary War, we're we're part of the colonies now. And some of them were already here, but they really wanted to be paid and you could pay them. Those records are in the United States.

John:

But they spent they spent enough time to drink the Kool-Aid and say, yeah, we the colonies are being treated unfairly.

Kathleen:

And so we can often find their records though, provincial troops, because we could follow a money trail. Our most difficult one is the militia. And every area had a militia. A bell would ring, the men took their muskets, went outside, and started defending their land. They needed to defend their borders. And African American men and the French Indian War did have African Americans along with the natives and the British and everyone else. A particular one was in Pennsylvania and he was enslaved. But he also behaved as a spy off the record, had got some very sensitive information. He escaped his enslavement to get to Virginia from Pennsylvania. And when he got to Virginia, he wanted to talk to the governor so that he could share this information. It saved that border that we were talking about. But in this case, it was the Virginia border. And that is also how he got his manumission, was because the governor awarded him his freedom.

John:

For services rendered.

Kathleen:

There's another African American who was hurt in the French Indian War. He was from Pennsylvania again, I believe. And he was injured uh while going to battle. He didn't make it to battle. He was discharged and released. He goes back home. It was the man who wrote for him said, My servant was injured, and he should be taken care of with some money. And he fought for him, and the the town's people and the council approved giving him an allowance. By the time he's in the Revolutionary War, he gets a pension. And everyone was stop researching because they saw him in the Revolutionary War getting a pension. He never fought in the Revolutionary War. That pension was a continuation from the French Indian War.

John:

But again, he had to have, you said his former owner was out with the.

Kathleen:

He says my servant. He doesn't say my slave. He does say my servant. So I don't know if he was indentured. I'm not sure I did not research that part, but he does say my servant.

John:

And so he advocated for him. That's that's interesting.

Kathleen:

And he did get it. Like I said, he got it for the rest of his life. And it was and and how do you find those records? Where would that record be? They're in council and court records. So you have to go through all of these. One of the first places I start with in the French Indian War, if I'm working in Virginia, is George Washington's papers. He names a lot of people, and the their letters back and forth may name your ancestors.

John:

Right.

Kathleen:

And it and George Washington, uh who was also in the French Indian War.

John:

Right. Uh his if if you watched Hamilton, um, you know, his his first trip out was a it was a horrible disaster. Um, but that was French, French Indian. So you go back to him.

Kathleen:

I go back to him. Those records are like at the Library of Congress, and I can sit here and read them on a rainy day. So sometimes I go through and I just read some of the things for the time frame I'm looking for, a particular year where someone disappeared, or what happened? How did that happen? All of these records are there. A lot of the congressional records or council records uh in the court records are there. Then you have to also go to your local because the locals have their own repositories, but do not expect a collated. So the biggest hints I normally get that someone's in the French and Indian War, there's two. First, were they in the Revolutionary War? If they were in the Revolutionary War, my next question was was where were they in 1763? The second question I have is if they were in the Revolutionary War, did I read every page of their pension record? Because their pension record normally was say, oh, he also served in the French and Indian War and what battles he was in, or if he was injured, which is how I found the African American person's pension record. But when I went back, I realized no, he was injured in the French Indian, not in the revolutionary.

John:

So again, a note for lazy researchers like me is read every page.

Kathleen:

There's no excuse anymore. We have AI now, John. Oh, to get it to read it to you. Yes, you don't even have to read the bad script. You can say, please transcribe this and then read the transcription to me.

John:

Can you really i i is that really that helpful that it'll transcribe the the wonderful? It does a good job, then.

Kathleen:

Yes. One of my last jobs was that's all it was about was military records and it was all these little transcripts, and you couldn't figure out what these people were writing and certain parts. So sometimes I would transcribe it, and then I was like, okay, please transcribe this for me. And then I would compare the two transcriptions. Right. And I might have gotten a word different or a correction, but it's a great place to start.

John:

So, okay, I I'm gonna I'm gonna detour on that because a lot of times we talk about the the issue of being able to read and write cursive, that of course we knew. I mean, that's it that's just your basic skill, right? You you there's so many people now that cannot uh write cursive or even read it. Is that is it okay that they can't now because we have AI?

Kathleen:

No, because the AI is not a hundred percent accurate. You have to still put eyes on it. And they do that in a lot of these records. But you need to, I mean, when they post a transcription.

John:

Digitize, yeah. Okay.

Kathleen:

But I always see we went we what we're working with original records. If you're working with original records, why do you want someone else AI to say what they're saying? So a lot of times I find errors or it miss you know, information that's not quite right, and I can make that correction. I can say, no, no, no, because I know it also in context, I can make a better decision of what that word is.

John:

Yeah, and that's true that AI often is doing things out of context. Right. Yeah, that's a good point. So again, we'll go back and advocate cursive writing, reading, yeah, it's not a waste of time.

Kathleen:

Now, when I'm reading the George Washington Records, though, I normally go straight toward the transcriptions because I'm just looking for names, and it's something close to a name. So I'm using wild cards, I'm doing something. Then I want to go to the original.

John:

Right. But you but you read all of them because you're not a lazy genealogist. And just to put a bow on that.

Kathleen:

Maybe we should call this podcast Not the Lazy Genealogist. The new mantra of 2026. Okay, John. So we've talked about different ways of where to go to find the records. And I also mentioned these court records and council records, those are very valuable. But there are other kinds of record groups people need to look at. Okay, wait on me. In addition to the revolutionary pension, that gives you a key, that gives you a point. But what you're looking for are muster rolls and pay lists for the provincial. That's the main part. I'm not gonna talk about the British regulars because they never were pro-America.

John:

They're not our people. They're not our people, they really are.

Kathleen:

Every blue moon, you find a British regular who came back and settled in the colonies, but not really.

John:

And we know we know what they're here for. We we know.

Kathleen:

I really don't, Jump, but I'm not gonna ask you either. So the other thing. So besides the mustard paylist, you also I've already mentioned the court and assembly records because they tracked money more than anything. And the land and bounty records, those records are very important. And those bounty lands are different from the Revolutionary War. So if you have a Virginia ancestor and they show up in North Carolina, you might think to yourself, hmm, wonder if they were in the French and uh and Indian War. Uh, we often think of the Virginia ancestors ending up in Kentucky. So, and again, that could be the French and Indian, but not as much as the North Carolina wreckers, and they're just filled with them.

John:

A lot of bounty land from the French and Indian War was in North Carolina, you're saying.

Kathleen:

From Virginia. The people from Virginia.

John:

Okay. Why did we go? Well, that kind of makes sense.

Kathleen:

And I'll write a blog about it so that people can see some of the maps.

John:

Is this going to be in your because you're doing the military book. Uh, and let me see if I can get this right. It's every soldier has a story, or that's correct. That's the name of the book. Okay, every soldier has a story, and your first chapter is if volume one, chapter one is the French and Indian War or the Seven Years.

Kathleen:

Actually, John, it's volume one, chapter two. I know I said chapter one, but it's my first war that I cover is a French Indian. Yeah, and it's in actually in chapter two. So I will give a lot more detail there, a lot of pictures, a lot of of case studies, so that people can like follow how to do it without pulling out their hair. But in the meantime, know that the French and Indian War did do land and bounty records later. That did not happen during that war or after that war. Normally you see that in the 1780s. So you have to tie it back.

John:

And I saw a note here that some of the really valuable evidence shows up not during the war and not immediately after it, but decades later when the veterans started talking about their experiences, which is very interesting.

Kathleen:

Yes, we don't normally find people who received land. They don't receive it during that French and Indian War. That became a Revolutionary War, so that's why they're mentioned in the Revolutionary War papers. They also served in the French and Indian.

John:

I guess things would have been in such a state of flux. Right. Uh that until the Revolutionary War was actually settled, then you know, who actually gets what pension based on what war was won? I would think that uh that that would make a big difference.

Kathleen:

So that's why we do need to read every page of a revolutionary war because you need to figure out why they get that much bounty land and where did they serve? And does this mention the French and Indian? Well, now I already know if it does mention that he could have gotten land from there, also. So I need to make sure I'm looking at all the land records, the bounty land records. I'm gonna go into detail with those court records and those assembly records, the council records. And again, it's everywhere. It was not centralized or organized. Matter of fact, in the French Indian War, the only two states that had bounty lands was Virginia and North Carolina. That was it. Later, you see that people had served and they wanted also more because during that time frame, they were the only two that had money set aside and land set aside for bounty.

John:

And so this is really just in a much longer time of turbulence in America than it's typically divided up in our history books, is that it seems like these are discrete actions, but really there's so much bleed over from the uh French and Indian War to the Revolutionary War to even the War of 1812 that this is a long period of turbulence.

Kathleen:

It is considered the first world war, the French Indian War. Because it was not only going on this land in North America, it was going on overseas with the British and the French also. So it just looked a little different. The years were a little different, but the war ended at the same time in 1763.

John:

Okay, so the the big takeaway on that is when you're looking at that paperwork and looking for your ancestor is they may be in a very different place than they were at the beginning of the war. And you have to read their pension files and make sure you understand where they went to, knowing that the paperwork follows where wars move people, or the the wars move people where the paperwork follows them. Is that everything's in arrears?

Kathleen:

So, John, basically, military service in general, it explains the land grants and migration and why families vanish and show up in a different state or county, or church records, even. So that is exactly what you're saying, is that wars move people before the paperwork follows them. I love the way you said that.

John:

Oh why, thank you. It's my first little profundity of 2026. Military service, especially back then, what I'm getting a sense of is that your research has to be very granular and it doesn't look the same as other wars, but it doesn't look the same between one service person and another. So your provincial versus your militia versus your indigenous, all of those you're gonna have a different, it's gonna be a different kettle of fish.

Kathleen:

Different sets of records for the information also. So the African Americans and the Native Americans did not receive bounty land. If you did, it's very strange scenario, but there was not noted to ever receive the land as the other French and Indian War soldiers received, even though both were there serving as allies. They were both involved in the French and Indian War.

John:

And that's you know, that's a good point that you you've always made in conversations and also in blogs, is that the the Native Americans aren't footnotes. These were active allies who actually planned a lot of the skirmishes with the British because they understood the territory. The both the British and French relied on them uh to know the land better than they possibly could. And so they were actually directing a lot of these actions.

Kathleen:

But their rewards were not the same. Some of the people would get gifts, like annual gifts, some of the chiefs of these different Native American tribes, they would get gifts annually for their assistance in the winning of the French and Indian War. The thing is, we can often trace that too. So if you are a descendant of a Native American, their names are probably in one of those lists or diaries. Remember, these some lot of people have diaries and they were keeping track of which Native American did what and then they were reported back. Later, after the war, they were awarded in gifts, not in bounty lands.

John:

Thank you. Thank you for fighting and directing our wars and making sure our people were able to navigate the lands in order to, you know, fight amongst ourselves. Thanks for helping us. I hear some tea. All right, so how does this all all of this? I'm jumping ahead. How does this change the way I research?

Kathleen:

So, John, basically it's what I've mentioned already. If they were here for the Revolutionary War, then my next question is where were they before 1763 or in 1763? So, how you're gonna research it at that point is try to pull little pieces of knowledge together. And it might even start with church records. We don't talk a lot enough about church records here. It might start with those papers we've already mentioned, the muster rolls and payrolls. But you have to just look in your ancestors' region. Ask yourself, how did that person end up with this particular land? Did you check to see how he got that land?

John:

With this conflict that really was the start of the nation. It wasn't just the start of the nation, it shaped the way the colonies, their identity, and even uh the families.

Kathleen:

That is correct. And understanding the this war, it doesn't really complicate your research. It actually clarifies it. And that's the best part about it. And so I'm sort of always saddened when I realize someone has skipped over the French and Indian War. You're sad?

John:

Don't be sad. That's it. It saddens me. Okay, so now researchers understand do not make my wife sad. Uh don't make your mind, do not make Kathleen sad uh if today's episode has made you rethink your timeline. Please don't make Kathleen sad. Share it with another historian. You really, you really could take a look at a brick wall, maybe, that you've been staring at, and this might break it wide open. Take a look back at those uh pension records and you know, do what I do. Try not to make my wife sad. Thank you, John.

SPEAKER_00:

Whatever you do. Don't make my wife sick. Whatever you do, don't make my wife sad.

John:

Well, congratulations, you made it to the end of another episode. Thanks so much for staying. Thanks to Chewy Chewbacca Brandt for his unwavering lack of interest in anything we're doing. The theme song for Hittin't the Bricks was written and performed by Tony Fisknuckle and the Garnets. Watch for their next appearance at your local Metamorphic Schist. Do you have a genealogical question for Kathleen? Drop us a line at hitting the bricks at gmail.com and let us know.

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Kathleen Brandt

Host
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John Brandt

Co-host