Hittin' the Bricks with Kathleen

Genealogy Wins: Presidential Libraries & Problem Names

• Kathleen Brandt • Episode 25036

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In this genealogy podcast episode, we discuss the significance of presidential libraries for genealogical research as part of our 2025 Presidential Library series. These libraries are an underutilized resource for genealogical projects, and Kathleen has uncovered dozens of ancestral documents for clients using them.

Kathleen also shares tips and tools for tackling genealogy brick walls and researching common surnames. For one client, she navigated the challenges of researching the surnames North, Hams, and Heard.

As always, we’re excited to share a helpful genealogical tool. Have you tried the libcat.familysearch.org catalog? This powerful tool can fast-track your brick wall research and even help you bypass calls to the courthouse. Just sign in with your familysearch.org username/password.

If you’re unfamiliar with FamilySearch, signing up for free access is simple—no credit card required, just a username and password.

Let’s take a moment to thank FamilySearch for digitizing and freely sharing their invaluable resources!

Be sure to bookmark linktr.ee/hittinthebricks for your one stop access to Kathleen Brandt, the host of Hittin' the Bricks with Kathleen. And, visit us on YouTube: Off the Wall with Kathleen John and Chewey video recorded specials.

Hittin' the Bricks is produced through the not-for-profit, 501c3 TracingAncestors.org.

John:

Ladies and gentlemen, from the tippy top of 2025, a quarter century into the millennium, welcome to another episode of Hittin' the Bricks with Kathleen, the do-it-yourself genealogy podcast featuring your questions and her answers. I am John, your humble hubby host, and today we'll be talking about presidential libraries searching for north hams and herds. Oh my, so let's start hitting the bricks. Happy New Year, hey baby.

Kathleen:

Oh, you're so silly. You are so silly. But Happy New Year to you and to all of our listeners, Sean.

John:

Yes to all of our listeners. Happy New Year to all of you and thank you for joining us again in a new year, and it's a quarter century into the century, isn't it?

Kathleen:

I think that's why you call it a quarter century.

John:

Yeah, it's a quarter century into the century.

Kathleen:

It's a quarter of a century. John Well, what are you excited about in 2025, then? Well?

John:

a lot of it is because the fun stuff that we have going with Tracing Ancestors and the Eternal Valor Network, that's very exciting work as well.

Kathleen:

I find that to be a huge project for 2025 for us and Tracing Ancestors and John. I don't know if our listeners know that this podcast is sponsored by the not-for-profit of tracingancestorsorg. John, I don't know if our listeners know that this podcast is sponsored by the not-for-profit of tracingancestorsorg.

John:

It's a good time to remind everybody that we're sponsored by a wonderful not-for-profit tracingancestorsorg. They help us do a lot of the nuts and bolts work because we're volunteering time and effort, but some of the expenses, the overhead that we have to deal with, is deferred which is wonderful through generous donations, and so we're lucky to be able to continue doing the work because of valued sponsorship like that.

Kathleen:

And the Eternal Valor Network, which is our unclaimed soldiers or veterans project, is also sponsored, as I mentioned, by Tracing Ancestors, and we are out to help others do different kinds of celebrations and memorials. So I do think that that particular not-for-profit is great and I do want to make sure that, as we go through this year, that we let our listeners know our progress and what we're doing as we go through this year, that we let our listeners know our progress and what we're doing, okay.

John:

So yeah, a lot of good things to look for the Eternal Fowler Network and the work we're doing with tracing or the work Tracing Ancestors is doing with us, which I should probably put it that way. But the end of the year had a little sad point with Jimmy Carter's passing, and we were talking about when we graduated. He was the first president that I voted for when I turned 18.

Kathleen:

And John. I actually worked on his presidential campaign in high school, my senior year, and he was the first. I was not eligible to vote for him, though you weren't old enough to vote. Right, I wasn't.

John:

And I was 18 at the end of middle school, so that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for disclosing that now, 30 years into our marriage. But now I understand. Everything is eliminated. So Jimmy Carter passed at the end of December and I saw on your notes or a blog post or something recently that you were going to be talking about something with presidential libraries. So is there a connection or was I looking over your shoulder at the wrong time.

Kathleen:

The presidential Library series was always planned for me for 2025. I will be featuring a Presidential Library as often as I can on our blog posts and I hope that we can also talk about them on this podcast from time to time. Jimmy Carter Presidential Library did go to the top for January. Presidential library did go to the top for January, so I wanted to make sure we do kind of mention what is the significance of presidential libraries and genealogists and family researchers.

John:

So can we talk about that now, because I have a couple of questions.

Kathleen:

Absolutely so. I do want you to know that all presidential libraries are different. Their holdings are based on when that president was in office. What was significant, but what they all do is they relate back to the past.

John:

So there's a lot of history that's specific to that presidential library, so it really ties into the time they served Exactly.

Kathleen:

Their papers will tie into that and also a lot of family papers and locals. So for Jimmy Carter's, for example, if you are from Georgia or even the southern states, there is a lot that will tie directly into your ancestors. We both always say genealogy is not just dates, genealogy is also our ancestral story and that's where we can find some of that social impact.

John:

What would be an example of the kind of papers we might find in a presidential library? There are some that are just kept by the government in the National Archives Presidential records. Is that what we're talking about? It's not presidential records.

Kathleen:

Those kind of records yes, some of them are presidential records, but they're their personal ones.

John:

So sometimes it's their journals. Yes, right, so it's not like nuclear plants that you keep in your bathroom.

Kathleen:

No, nothing like that, John. I was recently working on a. I was recently working on a farmer's family in the South and in Atlanta, of course, is Jimmy Carter Presidential Library, and I needed to understand what was going on. What were the rural issues? He really picked up not only civil rights, which we know about a lot the rural changes and modernizations. Through that I was able to find quite a bit about him and his family, but also there were still sharecroppers and tenant farmers in 1970s and he actually had one they talk about Mr Wright, and they called him Jimmy Carter's partner and there's a lot of information on the sharecropper and there's also a lot of information of how Jimmy Carter's policies impacted the modernization of farming.

John:

Well, I would imagine there's a significant difference between the concept of a sharecropper from, let's say, 1870 to 1970.

Kathleen:

Not much.

John:

Seriously.

Kathleen:

These were policies and contracts. I did a blog on it because I'm not even sure in my own head if I was understanding the difference between sharecropper and tenant farmer.

John:

Oh, so can you draw that distinction?

Kathleen:

Because I can promise you, I have no idea the difference. So, john, the difference between a sharecropper and a tenant farmer. The sharecroppers, first of all, they're working someone else's land for an exchange of the crops that are produced by the sharecropper and normally it's a little more than half so they can maybe feed their family and sell the rest.

John:

Okay.

Kathleen:

The tenant farmer rents land from a landowner and pays rent and often has to also give them a smaller percentage of their crop.

John:

So there might be. You pay X amount per month plus a percentage of what you actually produce, and now were tenant farmers living on the land?

Kathleen:

They both could be living on the land. It's all in their contract.

John:

OK, so it could depend.

Kathleen:

The only thing different from, let's say, pre-Civil War to after was percentages or details of a particular contract, pricing.

John:

let's say and maybe legal recourse.

Kathleen:

Maybe it just depends on that part, right you?

John:

know we laugh to keep from crying, but I'm sorry, Just like we. It was a good start to the year, but I'm already back on it. Oh my God.

Kathleen:

You're, so you're such a donor. So, john, what I do want the listeners to get out of all of this is that the presidential libraries are unique. If you've been to one does not mean you've been to them all. They do not have the same holdings. They don't have them for the same reasons, and if you're looking for things like census records and those kinds of things, that is not in the presidential library. It's a little more personal and it's more regional and it might have the name of your local, your own local ancestor, because either they wrote in to the candidates and these documents are saved. So you do want to visit your regional presidential library just to see if there's any correspondence in the community your ancestors grew up in.

John:

Would that be one of those things where I know your Aunt Lucy wrote a letter to Truman and then you could go there and see if perhaps it's actually there?

Kathleen:

That is correct.

John:

Seriously and next month.

Kathleen:

I will talk about Truman next month. Okay, but I think Truman.

John:

I just used Truman because he's right around the corner.

Kathleen:

John, I was working on a Kansas City Kansas project recently for another organization, and that's what got you in there. Yes.

John:

And so we're going to hear more about presidential libraries as the year goes on. Yes, and so we're going to hear more about presidential libraries as the year goes on. Yes, Okay, so again, it's a really fun way to start the year is looking forward to some more information coming in and I'm just kind of excited about the idea of you could find you know an ancestor who wrote to a president, maybe complimenting or complaining.

Kathleen:

I saw a lot of favors too, if you don't mind can you please do blank.

John:

Yeah, I could understand that I could definitely understand that. I guess now we just use tweets to petition our leaders.

Kathleen:

Or rudely petition our leaders.

John:

Yeah, one way or the other.

Kathleen:

Oh, okay.

John:

They earn the rudeness sometimes. Oh wow, we're cutting that part, the laughing, to well. That's really exciting and I'm definitely looking forward to that. Good, kathleen, what, why else are we here?

Kathleen:

wait a minute I mentioned a project I've been working on yeah, what have you? I just closed it yesterday or the day before, and this project ended up right in our own community, kansas City, missouri. Kansas City, kansas Cool, but that's not what I want to talk about.

John:

What I want to talk about really Well then, I'll just delete that part. Thanks for taking up some time here. I'm glad we're not paying for the studio by the hour, so you want to do it again?

Kathleen:

But what I want to talk about is this project and researching for it.

John:

Okay, so give us the deets on the research.

Kathleen:

The research was that four of his ancestors, his great grandparents, had names like Herd H-E-A-R-D, north N-O-R-T-H and Hams H-A-M-S.

John:

So I imagine Googling that gave you a few results that were not the subject of your search.

Kathleen:

These are problem. Surnames is what I say, because we have to be creative. How do I search for a Mr North? Because I have to really narrow and finalize that name or distinguish that name from just going north. Well, yeah, north 22nd Street. He headed north to Minnesota.

John:

So it would mess up any common newspaper articles.

Kathleen:

Or try to research the last name, hams, during the holiday season in December. The man died December 29th.

John:

And this is H-A-M-S.

Kathleen:

That's correct.

John:

No two M's.

Kathleen:

No, just one.

John:

H-A-M-S. That's correct. So you got a lot of Smithvilles and Smithfields.

Kathleen:

I got everything and how many cells. Every grocery store that had a cell when I'm doing these paper searches. They all had a cell on hams.

John:

Wonderful.

Kathleen:

And this is even as far back of 1890. I think they came to Missouri in 1880.

John:

But this continued early, all of these people came to Missouri about 1880. The three little pigs came north.

Kathleen:

But the key to doing that kind of research I wrote about it once before is what's the? Little stars and the question marks and the quotes Wild cards. Yes, thank you. The answer was the little stars and the question marks and the quotes um wild cards. Yes, thank you.

John:

So I talked about this before in a podcast disclaimer we're coming off of a break too, and so we thought this would be easy, but apparently putting a thought together has proven itself a little more difficult today than we had anticipated, and so our apologies up front. This might run long, go ahead.

Kathleen:

Kathleen, this is where we have to use wild cards. I've talked about it in newsletters. I've also talked about it on this podcast.

John:

Sure.

Kathleen:

We need to be able to know how to use, when to put something in a plus quote or use a star, how we can bring in other people's names or any name and hope that there's more how to narrow our dates. So if I'm looking at the family search library and I'm trying to find the right deed, I definitely can't use North, because that is in every deed.

John:

Well, yeah, yeah, it would be impossible. A land deed Right.

Kathleen:

So I have, I'm sorry, go ahead.

John:

So you add, you add on your searches, You're you're having to deal with first names, right?

Kathleen:

I'm dealing with maybe first names, if I have it.

John:

Right.

Kathleen:

This particular first name, North. His father was not a North, but I did find it in wills and probates and so I'm using timeframes and locations and siblings names.

John:

How did you? Well, I know, I know you got the answer. So how did you end up with the answer to finding the documents with this problem?

Kathleen:

I use wild cards in my search. I would add a family name. I use wild cards in my search. I would add a family name. I would add a place name, a timeline, or narrow my timeline as closely as I could to what I was looking for Any time a keyword that would eliminate a description of land I did that or any type of keyword that would eliminate the ham in the grocery store.

John:

So, for example, yeah, what would that be?

Kathleen:

I use Reverend hams in quotes.

John:

Okay, so the quotes become important because you're binding those two terms together. Is that correct?

Kathleen:

That's correct, and I was looking for a particular Reverend.

John:

Reverend, reverend.

Kathleen:

Finnegan hams Seriously, from Louisianaend finnigan hams seriously, louisiana finnigan hams.

John:

So, john, on your quotes with the name reverend ham. How do you deal with the space in between there?

Kathleen:

you put the space there just like you wanted to see exactly where it might be in print okay, do you?

John:

is there? Is there an occasion where it might be Ham comma Reverend?

Kathleen:

Do you do those in quotes, not normally, but sometimes you might, but in this case he was a very important person in Louisiana. Okay, but also I said you tie another person's name with him. Okay.

Kathleen:

So, I'm looking for Reverend Finnegan Hams. Okay, I'm working with my most recent, which was Reverend Henry Hams in Kansas City, kansas. My question was I was tying Samuel Hams of Kansas City, kansas, to Finnegan Hams of Louisiana, so I put both of those in the same search field In quotes First Samuel Hams and then Finnegan Hams or Reverend Hams in Louisiana. I had all of those things in one search field.

John:

Yes, and taking it, you got positive results.

Kathleen:

I did. I found the probate were. Samuel L Hams of Kansas City, Kansas, signed the secession of his father, Reverend Henry Hams, in a parish in Louisiana.

John:

Okay, once you get that, because that sounds like a big chunk of information. And now you have this probate right.

Kathleen:

That's correct.

John:

Does that give you a whole bunch of other information to where now you've got even more data on those two that you can use to build your search Like, do you? Get a daughter's name or something like that.

Kathleen:

Yes, Everybody who's named in his will, everyone who's entitled how they partition the land, will name all the children's names, even his sisters and his siblings. So I get a lot more information. Now I can research all of them.

John:

So that's a huge chunk of data that you get out of that, so the search time is worth it.

Kathleen:

The search time is absolutely worth it, and it doesn't take that much time, by the way. What takes the time is you deciphering what that document is telling you. If it's a land deed, it's telling you some information. If it's a probate or a will, it's telling you something else.

John:

That's really really interesting.

Kathleen:

So, John, one of the things that helped me a lot with not only this project, but another one that I ended in late December I had to understand more parts of FamilySearch. Familysearch is someplace that must be scoured in addition to those that you pay for, and it's free.

John:

Okay.

Kathleen:

But it has so many more resources. And it's free, okay, but it has so many more resources. So I have already talked about FamilySearch, ai and how much I just love it because it scans their whole database. Okay, I've already talked about the AI tool. I love that one. I know how to use that. I didn't really. I had never really worked in depth with the LibCat, which is their library catalog, and this is LibCatFamilySearchorg.

John:

Okay, L-I-V-E. Libcat no library, oh LibCat. L-i-b.

Kathleen:

Yes, l-i-b-c-a-t dot familysearchorg.

John:

Okay, we'll get it in the show notes, folks, or it'll be on the blog, but go ahead, sorry, go ahead.

Kathleen:

So the libcatfamilysearchorg tells us what we can get online and can access outside the library of FamilySearch, which is in Salt Lake City, or at any other affiliate, or sometimes from your own home computer.

John:

You're saying this is searching beyond the library.

Kathleen:

It is all of their holdings and how to access them, but it also tells you where you can get them in the world.

John:

Oh, so it's giving you alternative resources.

Kathleen:

Yes, I was looking for a marriage license in a particular county in Ohio and all I could find on Ancestry or just the regular databases was an index, but I wanted the actual original marriage record right.

Kathleen:

So as I'm looking, I realized, okay, I have to find where's the original. When I went to livecatfamilysearchorg, I get to research by county, by state, by name and by a collection. I mean there's a lot of ways to do it. So I actually went to the county. So what I did was I actually went and searched by county for the time frame that was already indexed and I was able to actually find the copy of the marriage record. My client has been looking for this for almost 20 years.

John:

Wow. Okay, so let's say 10 years ago, yes, that would not have been possible.

Kathleen:

No, because I don't think it was microfilmed then, so it would have taken.

John:

I mean, how would you have done that 10 years ago? What would that search have looked like?

Kathleen:

Oh, good question.

John:

Other than just being luck, a roll of the dice.

Kathleen:

They would have. A researcher would have had to go or contact a county genealogical society, the court, or go visit to see if they can go to the repository or plan a visit to the repository. They would have to. Also, they wouldn't know if it was at state or county level. It should be at county because it's a marriage, but where, In this case, FamilySearch actually told me where it was in the county and who signed it? I mean, I'm looking at the actual marriage record.

John:

Okay, so the index may have directed you, but then you would have to have physically gone, because they didn't have it microfilmed or microfished and certainly not digitized. That is correct. And then the other part of those digitization values has to be the access that you're gaining through FamilySearch. Is that correct?

Kathleen:

Yes, and it's possible that it's been in FamilySearch all these years, so you might have been able to go to FamilySearch in Salt Lake and go through all of their microfilm.

John:

And maybe it was indexed or on a particular reel and you can find it that way, or maybe it was still in a book or hanging on a rack somewhere. Say it one more time.

Kathleen:

And that is exactly what you can get using this website. It will tell you what book it's in, where it is on a microfilm, what microfilm it's in which libraries you can access? Now, mine was totally microfilmed and I accessed it in my pajamas from home, TMI.

John:

Which is fortunate, because it's only been a few times where I've had to come collect you from the library in your pajamas, so at least you were at home this time.

Kathleen:

That's not funny.

John:

Well, I didn't think so either at the time, but look at us, now we can laugh about it. You are so ornery. Well, I didn't think so either at the time, but look at us, now we can laugh about it.

Kathleen:

You are so ornery.

John:

Well, congratulations, you've made it to the end of another episode. Thanks so much for staying. Thanks to Chewy Chewbacca Brandt, our part-time kippy-girty puppy and Full-Time Reason for Pet Insurance, for his unwavering lack of interest in anything we're doing. The theme song for Hittin' the Bricks was written and performed by Tony Fistknuckle and the Deaf Aids Watch for their next appearance where Doris gets her oats. You can find us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Do you have a genealogical question for Kathleen? Drop us a line at HittintheBricks at gmailcom and let us know.

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Kathleen Brandt

Host
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John Brandt

Co-host