Hittin' the Bricks with Kathleen
A "brick-wall" DIY genealogy podcast that features your questions and Kathleen Brandt's answers. She wants your stories, questions, and “brick walls”. But be ready to add to your "to-do" list. As Kathleen always says, this is a Do it yourself (DIY) genealogy podcast. “I'll show you where the shovel is, but I'm not digging up your family.”
Maybe, you have no idea where to start searching for an ancestor. Or, perhaps you want to know more about your family folklore. Host Kathleen has 20 years in the industry and is the founder of a3genealogy. She's able to dispense genealogy research advice and encouragement in understandable terms that won't get you lost in genealogy jargon. Along with her husband and co-host, John, she helps you accomplish "do-it-yourself" research goals, learn some history, and have a bit of fun along the way. Light-hearted and full of detailed info, Hittin' the Bricks is your solution for your brick-wall research problems.
Hittin' the Bricks with Kathleen
Combing the Barbers: KY, MO, KS
The military records of Dante Barber's third great-grandfather, David Barber confirmed David enlisted in the Civil War - USCT at Ft Leavenworth, Kansas. David and wife Sophia Bullitt, were born in KY. Yet, all of their children were born in Missouri.
In this DIY genealogy project, Dante will have to comb through records of KY, MO and Kansas to get his genealogical question answered: What can we learn about David Barber, born about 1819, prior to the Civil War?
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Ladies and gentlemen from the depths of flyover country in the heartland of America, the Kansas City on the other side of the mighty moe, welcome to Hitting the Bricks with Kathleen, the do-it-yourself genealogy podcast that features your questions and her answers. I am John, your humble hubby host, and on this episode we'll be talking to Dante Barber from the Show Me State, the great state of Missouri. So let's start Hitting the Bricks.
Kathleen Brandt:John, I want to make sure that you know a few things about Dante. Okay, Of course he can talk about it himself. You're supposed to know where Dante works, and then I think he had a birthday yesterday.
John Brandt:The 3-0. Happy birthday, dante. I was.
Kathleen Brandt:I wanted to send you a birthday note yesterday, not that, oh, I'll just mention it on air.
John Brandt:The big 3-0, which I was telling him, and so all downhill from there.
Kathleen Brandt:Oh, that's horrible, Dante no, it's not so. Dante, tell us a little bit about where you work, because I think that the audience, the listeners, will like to hear about where you work. Well, I would too.
Dante Barber:Yeah, it would be relevant for this conversation. I work at the National Records Center. There's some caves off of Lee's Summit Road that I work at and specifically I'm a contractor with the USCIS, the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, and in particular, the department I'm in. We digitize immigration records.
Kathleen Brandt:Hold on a second.
John Brandt:Oh she's a client.
Kathleen Brandt:That's a clap for digitizing immigration records Okay.
John Brandt:No wonder she's been so excited about this. She's been acting like it's her birthday coming up to this one because she's like oh, I can't wait, I can't wait.
Kathleen Brandt:We're going to be working on the Barber family. Yeah, and we have another great connection John Dante's father attended Topeka High School.
Dante Barber:Topeka High School. He went to Topeka High.
Kathleen Brandt:I was born in Topeka and my mother taught at Topeka West, I think. Is there a Topeka West High School? Yes, I think that's where she taught when we were living in Topeka, so we also have Topeka in common.
Dante Barber:Yeah, we're back to Topeka.
Kathleen Brandt:So I think we're ready to get started. Oh, I thought we already had. Oh, we have, but not on Dante's genealogical question.
John Brandt:John Genealogical question. Okay, so now nuts and bolts, let's get to work. It's Monday, dante, what's your question?
Dante Barber:My question is where David Barber of the 79th US color troops was in Missouri and also in Kentucky.
Kathleen Brandt:The last time you see David Barber. He was in Topeka right.
Dante Barber:He was into. Yeah, he ultimately settles in Topeka Kansas.
John Brandt:No, who's David Barber?
Dante Barber:He is my third great grandfather, okay.
Kathleen Brandt:And for me he was Dante's question. So Dante has a third great grandfather named David Barber. And what do we know about David?
Dante Barber:We know that he is on three census records the 1870 federal census, the 1875 Kansas state census and then finally the 1880 census. He ultimately passes away on February 1st of 1882.
Kathleen Brandt:And how did you know that?
Dante Barber:From his fine degrade entry. I was trying to corroborate that but I don't know if the Topeka cemetery that he's buried in may have that information. I haven't looked that up yet, but on his wife's obituary he is mentioned as dying in 1880, but I believe that is a typo, since he shows up in the 1880 census and I think the date on that is June of 1880. The only other things about him that I know is that he served in what was then called the first Kansas colored infantry in the Civil War and that's probably where I get the earliest date of him on a document. You may want to know why I mentioned Missouri and Kentucky from the census records. Well, from him and his wife both list Kentucky as their place of birth. With the children meaning my great-great-grandfather and all of his siblings they list Missouri as their place of birth.
Kathleen Brandt:And that's a great place to start. So, dante, what you have told me so far is you have this Kansas person who says he's from Kentucky. All of his children were born in Missouri in the meantime, and that was my biggest clue to get to the information I'm going to give you. Okay, but last backup we do cluster research and, although we were working for David, do we know where any of these people are actually born in Kentucky?
Dante Barber:So with his wife I found out from the Shawnee County and this is was in the Midwest genealogy center. I have to give them a shout out, shout out to Midwest genealogy center.
Dante Barber:Yeah, they have. It's the Shawnee County Book of Marriages, volume one. They are listed David Barber marrying a Sophia bullets, may 4th of 1867, and so with her maiden name there is a well-known Bullets family, and also from her obituary they list that Louisville, kentucky Right, is where she was born. There is one enlistment paperwork for David where he lists Jefferson Kentucky, which I don't know if it would be a stretch to say that is Jefferson County, which would be the same area that it's where Louisville is Jefferson County. So I'm thinking that they, david and Sophia, are both from Jefferson County, kentucky.
Kathleen Brandt:So that's very good conclusion.
John Brandt:This is this is really interesting because, see, dante is the ringer, the he's a ringer. He's a ringer. He has to be, because when you're already working, you're working with immigration records. Okay in the case. So I'm profiling you right now. Right, you're working with immigration records, but you've left your computer. You've gone to Midwest genealogy.
Dante Barber:Yeah, right down the road.
John Brandt:Yeah, you've already done this external research.
Kathleen Brandt:It's not all ancestry and it's more than I've done, so I Was say, dante would have a brick wall, a true brick wall, if he had his originals. But since he doesn't have his originals, I still not gonna call it a brick wall. But there's a lot of conclusions that you can come up with based on what you do have. One thing I don't have to mention is Sophia David Barber's wife. Her last name is bullet, so Sophia bullet, who married David Barber, is a big hit for me. Yeah, the county Kentucky is just south of Louisville in David's.
Kathleen Brandt:Military records. In his USCT records that I did see he says he's from Louisville.
Kathleen Brandt:Oh that doesn't mean they're in the actual city of Louisville, but that places both of them in the same area of Louisville because at that time they might have been in a suburb I mean not a suburb, there was no system as a suburb. They might have been in the countryside Working on on a country farm or plantation, and the bullets were known for that. But one of the biggest hints that we have about this entire family was in that marriage document. In that index that you saw at Midwest Genealogy Center. It mentions that they had an affidavit from 1840.
Kathleen Brandt:Oh right, so one of the things we're gonna do when we look at stuff. We're not gonna just look for what we want, we're gonna look for every little hint. It's right there. It says they had a marriage affidavit of 1840, which means that they were married during slavery. Okay, now you have several questions when that comes up. Was it a slave marriage where the plantation owners just agreed to it, or were they free coloreds? Or was there another reason? I did not find them as free colors?
John Brandt:Okay but why would knowing they were free colors have been something that you were already able to eliminate at this point?
Kathleen Brandt:Oh, I already checked to make sure that they weren't listed and senses as free colors that they didn't have in a store of a Emancipation paperwork and I did not see that. Okay, but 1840 is about the time they moved to Missouri Not necessarily, sophia yet.
Kathleen Brandt:Okay so you have the most interesting case Because of a guy named Nelson. Has nothing with the do with the name bullet, okay, except he's an abolitionist. Oh Right, you see how big it, david. So one of our keys of doing any kind of brick-raw research is knowing your area. So one of the first things I went to because I'm like I wonder if they're free colors, I wonder if they worked on a plantation. Where's Bullock County? Where's Louisville in connection to it? What else do I need to know about this area? Yeah, david Nelson, in Missouri, and he's from Kentucky Actually, he's originally from Tennessee moved to Kentucky, did war stuff in other areas like Illinois, which is right across the street from Hannibal, missouri. What do you mean? War stuff you said he did war stuff 1812.
Kathleen Brandt:He's an abolitionist Right and he's a doctor, but what he was noted for is the underground railroad.
Dante Barber:OK.
Kathleen Brandt:And he was very liberal in his practices. So that 1840 document that I know exists and there might be a copy in two places and those are two places I want you to go to. So the 1840 affidavit was on Sophia and David's marriage record in 1867 in Topeka, Kansas. So when you look at that index of 1867, you also see another bullet and your assumption is correct. It says probably her brother.
Dante Barber:OK, yeah.
Kathleen Brandt:But in that Topeka 1867, we must understand why 1867. In 1867, and right after the Civil War, actually from 1865 to about 1870, African-Americans registered their slave marriages so that they would be recognized as legal. So that's why you see all of those 1867 records. That's the significance of that. It's just that Sophia says yes, but here we have the marriage. Here's my affidavit from 1840. So my question was why did she have an 1840 affidavit, unless it was more or less legal? That is also why I looked at David Nelson, the abolitionist, who was the minister. Was he allowed to marry the slaves? I don't know yet, but you're going to find out the way you're going to find out is first the Topeka court.
Kathleen Brandt:has it the Shawnee County in Topeka? Unfortunately, I couldn't get it for you, even though I called because I wanted to know.
John Brandt:You really got to benefit here, donte, if she gets super excited, well, I'm hearing Topeka now, so hey, I might head down there.
Dante Barber:There you go, yeah Well don't hurry too fast.
Kathleen Brandt:Everything's in boxes because they're moving or restoring their location. But you can ask them to search for you. It is $12 an hour but I don't know if they'll let you go in and look at those originals. My question is I see the index, just like you saw at the library, but where are the originals? We always want the originals. In the meantime, you must get the full pension record that Sophia applied for for her husband. That is in Washington DC Archives 1. It could also have that original affidavit in there. But it can also tell you what happened to David Barber.
John Brandt:And the reason we're looking for.
Kathleen Brandt:What happened to David Barber is. Let me give you an example. In my own family also Kansas, also African-American USCT I was able to pull a record and I was able to find not only his genealogical history, I was also able to learn where he died, because he died in the Osawatomi Institution, david. Two years before his death the newspaper is bragging on his land and, don't worry, you'll get copies of anything I'm mentioning. They're bragging about the land he has in 1880. But there's no obituary on him. My question again is why Was he institutionalized? Was he in Leavenworth in a veteran's home, or is he in Osawatomi or Larner? But military records will tell you what happened to him through the Pinchon record.
John Brandt:What do you mean? The newspaper was bragging on him.
Kathleen Brandt:They actually had this huge article about how successful his farm was.
Kathleen Brandt:Now he didn't live in Topeka proper. He lived in Sojour, shawnee County. It's a township, yes, it's a township. So in Sojour township he had this land and there was a lot of information on this land. You want that information too, by the way. Oh, ok, you want to trace it because they have the descriptions already for you.
Kathleen Brandt:This is a perfect time to go to the courthouse, when it's open, back up and ask them to assist you with tracing land records, because you're going to understand why he got the land, but I do know some of it was through a timber, so he probably had a contract through the government and got it. He was selling timber. No, it is when you actually clear wild land For the government and they give you basically a lease until you do it and then you own the land. Ok, once it's cleared. Once it's cleared, your job is to clear it. Ok, those original records are right here in Kansas City at the National Archives, but not necessarily the first place I would go. I would go to Shawnee Mission to the actual original land records, starting with most present, and tracing it back. It looked like Sophia and the family lost a lot of that land, probably for taxes. So you want to do that. So let me see. So far we talked about getting the marriage records, getting original military records, especially his pension file, and the land records.
Kathleen Brandt:Now let's get back to the other case. Your question to me was where was David pre-Silva War? You said I see him in Leavenworth, but I can't find out where, in Kentucky. Well, that brought me back to the abolitionist David Nelson. Okay, and I like the fact that this abolitionist name is David and your guy's name is David. This guy ended up in Missouri, in Marion County. What was Davis Otis child's name?
Dante Barber:I believe it is Marion Barber.
Kathleen Brandt:Exactly Marion Barber who is the Otis, and we have records of that in the Friedman record. I think you sent me that information, yeah, or it's on your tree.
Dante Barber:That is literally that is the only information that I have connecting when David and Sophia went to St Louis to the local Friedman office in 1870. And it just says David and Sophia Barber of Topeka, kansas, parents of Marion Barber, I get he was killed in action at the Battle of Island Mound outside of Butler in Bates County.
John Brandt:Right.
Dante Barber:So that's literally the only information I have on who was killed.
John Brandt:Is that Marion was killed?
Kathleen Brandt:Yes, so Marion is their Otis child and we're assuming that because he's not on the 1870s census and that's the first census we see him on. But we do see him named with his parents in these Friedman records. So I found it interesting that his name was Marion and they might have had something in Marion County which David Nelson wasn't. So I'm doing more research.
John Brandt:David.
Kathleen Brandt:Barber. I didn't find him really anywhere else, but David Nelson, the abolitionist, just happened to have a lot of Barber slaves which he would, because you couldn't always free them, depending on which county you were in and what the rules were.
John Brandt:Yeah, but Barber was in Missouri.
Kathleen Brandt:He actually came to Missouri. Now he remember.
John Brandt:Okay, missouri was a slave state, though.
Kathleen Brandt:Yes, it was a border state.
John Brandt:Well, okay.
Kathleen Brandt:That's why they had so many slave records On this end Dante. So David Barber, who we know was in Kentucky at some point. We also know he was in Marion County, missouri. He had slaves even though he was an abolitionist. Remember, a lot of the abolitionists kept the slave status. But that might explain that 1840 marriage record Okay, even though we know that marriage record in 1840 is in Louisville. Okay. So the abolitionist David Nelson. When I wanted to see who was he in Marion County, what I looked up is what slaves did he own, who did he enslave? And what I found was that his son, aurelius, had quite a few Barbers.
Dante Barber:Okay, do you know this? Are you saying that he acquired slaves from someone with the last name Barber, who owned slaves in Kentucky?
Kathleen Brandt:Yes, it is exactly because Missouri was the place that he knew that he could put them, and it was right on that river between Illinois and near Hannibal, missouri.
Dante Barber:Okay.
Kathleen Brandt:So Aurelius had three other enslaved people that were my key because they also went into the Civil War, went to Missouri. Okay, they were born in Kentucky Right Now you see the connection.
Kathleen Brandt:So it doesn't come up with your name because your person went to Fort Leavenworth and listed these people all listed in St Louis. So the slave holder apparently gave them permission to legally join or to legally escape. There is a full article on the relationship of St Louis and Leavenworth, how the union was what the Confederates considered kidnapping slaves to get them to Fort Leavenworth.
Kathleen Brandt:I am sending you that article for you to do further research and I'm sending you quite a bit on David Nelson so you can understand why I like this, and I'm also sending you information on the other three. There was John, silas and Isaiah. Isaiah was from Mercer County, kentucky. John and Silas were from Boyle County, kentucky. You'll want to check all those records because we know David Nelson was there and you'll want to check David Nelson and Aurelius' records in Missouri. Okay Now, how far did I confuse you so far?
Dante Barber:What questions do you have for me? Okay, so right now I don't know how confident you are on David Nelson. I would give him.
Kathleen Brandt:If I were researching those, that's exactly where I would start. I would say about a seven. And the way you're going to double check between David and Aurelius is look at their deed records and their business transactions. They were very important people. The Presbyterian church records also in the area, which you'll read about because I'll send it to you, where he did a lot of his abolitionist work. You'll want to check those records. There's also a college in the area called Merion College. What you're looking for at this point, because we can't trace the slave itself, is we're tracing the enslaveur. So what I would say to do first is get the original records. The pension and the marriage will guide you directly to what my theory is.
Kathleen Brandt:This is still a hypothesis, but what you want to do is see if you can get closer to the answer or disprove this, and then we start all over All of the bullets in that area. There's several of them. Only those three matched Missouri, Kentucky, and they all happened to be under David Nelson.
Dante Barber:Okay. So when you say the other bullets, you're saying this is who I believe is the older brother of Sophia, and Daniel.
Kathleen Brandt:And now remember, all the three I traced were actually barbers, okay, and one of them was Sam. Sam ran away, so he has an ad and he also is one of Aurelius' enslaved persons.
John Brandt:It sounds like a target rich environment for cluster research and a lot of land records Absolutely Land or deeds, ownership deeds.
Kathleen Brandt:Yeah, the deeds, the deeds. Yeah, talk about how he actually acquired all these enslaved people, and that's what you're looking for, because you're looking for your person named by name.
Dante Barber:Okay, okay. I'm trying to think of everything that I'm going to be looking for here.
John Brandt:Dante. She's going to send you a comprehensive and large package of links and notes. I have two pages of them here, but that's not even the beginning of it. I don't think.
Kathleen Brandt:So don't worry about that. It's only about six pages, but I will send it to you.
John Brandt:You'll have all that to kind of help you path your way through it.
Kathleen Brandt:But you have to start somewhere.
Dante Barber:I said that'll make for some good reading material. Yes, absolutely.
Kathleen Brandt:And you have to start somewhere. Dante and I would say this is where we would start as professionals, because of the connections that we were able to make that were quite exciting.
Dante Barber:Okay, yeah.
Kathleen Brandt:Exciting from a research standpoint.
Dante Barber:Something that frustrated me in doing this research I know online. You know they often suggest when you're researching enslaved ancestors, look at the 1860, 1850 slave schedules. But I mean I knew roughly what ages you know my people were at the time. But really I mean, if a net as wide as Missouri, I didn't know where in Missouri, I didn't. I was going to start maybe somewhere close to the Kansas-Missouri border because I know you know a lot of you know when kids were in the free state.
Dante Barber:you know, I know there were a lot of runaways, so I'll have to look up where Marion County is.
Kathleen Brandt:I think it's probably another town Down by Yannipole, right on the water, easy to get to Kansas.
John Brandt:Kathleen, if we're clear on that, and Dante, if you don't have any other questions, that at least right now that I know you'll have 20 of them at about two o'clock in the morning, I want you to feel free. I'll text you your phone number. You can feel free to call her or, okay, maybe not Kathleen, anything else.
Kathleen Brandt:No, I just wanted to make sure Dante had a place to start. You do excellent research, so you should be able to go ahead and go forward.
Dante Barber:You know, this is one of many parts on my family tree. They're all deal with slavery and I've had limited success.
John Brandt:But Hopefully this will spur you on to a little bit larger success then. Dante, thanks a whole bunch for coming in. We really do appreciate this. This was a lot of fun.
Kathleen Brandt:Thanks, Dante, for a great break and happy birthday yeah. There's an happy birthday. Bye-bye. Thank you, Dante.
Dante Barber:All right, you have a good one.
John Brandt:All right, bye-bye. Well, congratulations, you've made it to the end of another episode. Thanks so much for staying. Thanks to Dante for his questions. Thanks to Chewy Chewbacca Brandt, our part-time leech collector and full-time nitty-hammer, for his unwavering lack of interest in anything we're doing. The theme song for A Hit in the Bricks was written and performed by Tony Fissnuckle and the Neutrons Watch for their next appearance at the Evitable Conflict. You can find us on Apple, spotify, youtube and, of course, buzzsprout, wherever you listen to your favorite shows. We'd love to hear what you think about the podcast, so stop by our Facebook page at Hit in the Bricks with Kathleen and let us know.
