Hittin' the Bricks with Kathleen
Genealogy Road Trip: Off the Wall
John catches up with Kathleen while she's traveling doing research for clients, in Richmond Virginia with Kevin Spire, an a3genealogy intern. They talk about their work at the Library of Congress as well as other valuable repositories in the D.C., VA. area. Chewey has a highlighted spot.
Be sure to bookmark linktr.ee/hittinthebricks for your one stop access to Kathleen Brandt, the host of Hittin' the Bricks with Kathleen. And, visit us on YouTube: Off the Wall with Kathleen John and Chewey video recorded specials.
Hittin' the Bricks is produced through the not-for-profit, 501c3 TracingAncestors.org.
Thanks to MyHeritage for their generous support to Hittin' the Bricks with Kathleen! Follow us on social media and subscribe to HTB with Kathleen in order to enter your name in our monthly MyHeritage Complete Package giveaway starting Jan 2024!
John catches up with Kathleen while she's traveling doing research for clients, in Richmond Virginia with Kevin Spire, an a3genealogy intern. They talk about their work at the Library of Congress as well as other valuable repositories in the D.C., VA. area. Chewey has a highlighted spot.
Be sure to bookmark linktr.ee/hittinthebricks for your one stop access to Kathleen Brandt, the host of Hittin' the Bricks with Kathleen. And, visit us on YouTube: Off the Wall with Kathleen John and Chewey video recorded specials.
Hittin' the Bricks is produced through the not-for-profit, 501c3 TracingAncestors.org.
Thanks to MyHeritage for their generous support to Hittin' the Bricks with Kathleen! Follow us on social media and subscribe to HTB with Kathleen in order to enter your name in our monthly MyHeritage Complete Package giveaway starting Jan 2024!
Ladies and gentlemen from the depths of the adjunct laundry room, welcome to a special video edition of Hit in the Bricks with Kathleen that we're calling Off the Wall While she's doing research on location in Virginia and DC. We'll catch up with her. Of course, we're still on Buzzsprout and wherever you find your favorite podcast. But if you want to watch this and future episodes of Hit in the Bricks, stop by our YouTube channel at HTBKRB or do the searchy thing on the googly thing or the microbing thing for hitting the bricks with Kathleen. But in the meantime, let's get off the wall. Kevin, how are you Nice to meet you?
Kevin Spire:I'm good, I'm good, john, nice to meet you.
John Brandt:See now, this is interesting because Kevin has kind of a flower motif going on there. It looks like it's Hawaiian shirt day. Absolutely yeah, kathleen. You probably have flowers on yours, if I remember that cover. Uh-oh, I can't hear you. Oh, okay, cough button. Oh, she got all settled and now she's choking. Well, let's watch. Let's see if my wife survives this interview.
Kathleen Brandt:But Lisa's not at me swallowing my earpiece. Oh God.
John Brandt:Did you tell Kevin about that?
Kevin Spire:I did?
John Brandt:You thought you were swallowing your earpiece because that seems normal. That's where you go when you wake up and you're choking in the middle of the night. Although I guess that was a terrifying story, even to me. I thought that was really weird. Did you hear that story, Kevin?
Kevin Spire:About the earpiece.
John Brandt:Yeah, it fell out while he was sleeping and he ended up like it was stuck in his throat.
Kevin Spire:Yeah, that's what she was telling me. She had a really good mouth. Of course, that was the first thing that comes to mind when the person wakes up choking yes, now whenever.
John Brandt:I always assume it's my earbud.
Kathleen Brandt:Okay, we're done teasing you.
John Brandt:Okay. So of course we're with Kathleen honey bunny, and we're with Kevin Spire, who is working with Kathleen, and you guys are in Richmond right now.
Kathleen Brandt:Richmond Virginia.
John Brandt:Okay, so here's my first question. Then. My first question is why? Why do you have to go, kevin, you're in Iowa, right, that's my home, yep, okay, so you're in Iowa, kathleen's in Kansas City. Why do you have to physically go to Richmond, virginia, to do research?
Kathleen Brandt:That's an excellent question. I came because I needed a break from you.
John Brandt:There's no real reason, right? There's no real reason, there's no real reason. There's no reason.
Kathleen Brandt:I just needed a break from you and Kevin thought well, let me entertain you while we're in Richmond.
John Brandt:Everybody else I asked. I asked the next door neighbors why they thought and they were like, yeah, it's just getting a break from you.
Kathleen Brandt:Yeah, so I kind of knew. That's quite true. We are both working on brick wall projects and they both go to the 1700s.
John Brandt:Are you working on the same project?
Kathleen Brandt:No, I can talk about my project, which is the Nichols family, and Kevin can talk about his project, which is the Thompson family which?
John Brandt:which Nichols family is this Chuck's Nichols? No, no, this is this is a.
Kathleen Brandt:This has been going off for about three years actually and we are back to around 1698. And this is totally colonial Virginia and mine is. A issue is really the commonality of names, because there's so many John Nichols in the world I can't imagine I can tell you about his project.
John Brandt:Yeah, kevin. What and what takes you to over Jenny?
Kevin Spire:So for me, I'm working on a project to identify who are the parents of Samuel Thompson, born about 1800 in Virginia and this fellow is said to have been born in Virginia at a very young age, move to Shelby County, kentucky, then lived for a while in Putnam County, indiana and Lawrence County, indiana and then finally moved to Livingston County, missouri, where he lived the rest of his life and passed away. So we're looking for some documentation and some records to help support the case of identifying who his parents are. And like there is with Kathleen's Nichols case, a lot of Nichols, there's also a lot of Samuel Thompson's out in the world. I imagine.
Kevin Spire:Especially at that time. So it's been quite a challenge.
John Brandt:Well, ok, so fine. You had to travel to Richmond, but there is a thing called the Internet and I'm wondering an ancestry and heritage, and there's a whole bunch of other research tools out there that you can do from your computer. So, again, other than getting away from your, your husband Kathleen, why? Why did you have to travel to do this particular portion of research? Because it should be online in it.
Kathleen Brandt:Well, that is wonderful myth that everything is online and there are millions of records online, but there are billions of records that are not, and we have been working quite a bit. Both of these projects are have been to I think the Thompson is two years and the Nichols is three or four. So, to get to where we are and we need to get closer to the records that are not digitized, we need to get closer to the books that we can't get our hands on, and there's a big plus about doing a road trip, and that is you get to sit in that state, that states repository, and you get to play with everything right there in front of you all the resources. So that's not something we can do from from home. We can order some of these things, but you have to wait, then you have to order something else, whereas here we can get a lead and go right to the next, the next.
John Brandt:So there's a ton of value in actually being on site.
Kathleen Brandt:There is a ton when you get to that point. Yeah, I think, kevin, kevin has a probably a different experience than I do with it because, kevin, you haven't done an extreme amount of onsite research. Is that correct, that's?
Kevin Spire:true, I have not done a lot of onsite research. You know, living in Des Moines, iowa, there are a minimal number of repositories for Iowa records. I would have to travel, most likely to Kansas City or Chicago or something, for a bigger repository. So this has been great and you know another part that, adding on to what Kathleen was talking about. Another part is getting to interact and have the help of the library staff there with you Because they you know that's what they're there for is to help you and they know their resources and they can help you identify maybe some things you haven't thought of.
John Brandt:Oh, wow, Interesting. So it really. There really are some distinct advantages to getting out from behind your desk, getting off off the internet and then the ground site.
Kathleen Brandt:Yes, we have been able to go down to three different, well, four different repositories on this trip. Of course, this has been a seven day or eight inch trip, but we have been able to go to and Kevin helped me here Library of Virginia, yes, and the State Archives of Virginia. Is that what that other one is called?
Kevin Spire:Well, there was also the Museum of Culture and History.
Kathleen Brandt:That's the one, yes.
Kevin Spire:The Museum of Culture and History.
Kathleen Brandt:And then yesterday Kevin and I looked at each other and said you know, let's go hang out in DC so we could train ride. And we went to DC and we went to the Library of Congress, right, and we were in two different buildings. I was in more of a colonial part of the building, the Madison building, and Kevin, you were in.
Kevin Spire:I was in the Jefferson building.
Kathleen Brandt:Right, the Jefferson, and then Kevin also got to visit the DAR, the Daughters of American Revolution yesterday.
John Brandt:Do we know how many buildings are composed of the Library of Congress?
Kathleen Brandt:There's at least three.
John Brandt:Welcome to Chewie's History Break, brought to you by Hittin' the Bricks with Kathleen. You know it ain't who-y if you hear it from Chewie. The story of the Library of Congress we know today begins in 1783 with a 32-year-old James Madison, a member of the Continental Congress, proposing a list of books that would be useful to legislators. Congress always known for swift, decisive action. After signing the Treaty of Paris, the Articles of Confederation, the ratification of the US Constitution and you know basically everything that happens in the Second Act of Hamilton and after the Whiskey Act, the Bill of Rights and the First Ten Amendments to the Constitution, the Fugitive Slave Act, the Whiskey Rebellion, the End of the Whiskey Rebellion, the Relocation of the Capitol from New York to Washington, the Election of John Adams as Second President, the Passing of the Alien and Sedition Acts, passage of the Eleventh Amendment, creation of the Department of the Navy and the Death of George Washington. After all of that, just 17 short years later, in 1800, john Adams approved an act of Congress allocating $5,000 for books for the establishing of a library for Congress. After much deliberation, they decided to call it the Library of Congress. It was located in the north wing of the Capitol building and had 740 books.
John Brandt:In 1802, the position of Librarian of Congress was created and President Thomas Jefferson named John James Beckley, who was the clerk of the House of Representatives, as the first librarian in what we refer to today as Job Creep. But in 1814, while the British were getting a little payback for that 4th of July a few years previous, they burned the Capitol and the Library of Congress was lost. However, thomas Jefferson, living in Monticello and living well beyond the means of even a wealthy plantation owner, sold 6,487 books for $23,950 from his personal library to refurbish the shelves of the Library of Congress and not, coincidentally, help him recover from his own debts FYI, it didn't help. In subsequent years, the Librarian of Congress became a full-time position and they continued to expand the influence, services and acquisitions of the Library of Congress. All this to say 114 years after James Madison had an idea. The largest library in the world opened its doors to the public in 1897.
Kevin Spire:The.
John Brandt:New Century saw exponential expansion of services and collections, and in 1939, the Annex building was opened to the public, followed by the planning of a third building in 1958, the James Madison Memorial Building that opened in 1980. 1980 also saw the renaming of the first building of the Library of Congress to the Thomas Jefferson building, and the Annex building of 1939 renamed to the John Adams building. So there are three buildings that comprise the Library of Congress, named for the second, third and fourth presidents of the United States Adams, jefferson and Madison. Today, the institution has over 39 million books, along with 167 million other items and printed materials. In the 233 years since its establishment, there have been 14 librarians of Congress. Currently serving is Carla D Hayden. She was sworn in in 2016 and is the first woman, as well as the first African-American, to serve as the Librarian of Congress. Well, it's about time and that concludes Chewie's history break. You know it ain't who-y if you hear it from Chewie.
Kathleen Brandt:So when we got kind of right before we got here, we thought they were open, the repositories we needed on Saturday, or at least the one that we were going to, the Library of Virginia and it was not. It only opened one or two Saturdays a month and this was not the Saturday. So literally where we wanted to go was called Saturday, Sunday and Monday. Oh wow. So we still did some research on Saturday because, again, Kevin had already pre-planned what is open on Saturday, and so that's when we went to the other repository that I don't remember the name of, and on Sunday was a play day.
John Brandt:The repository that shall not be named.
Kathleen Brandt:Exactly, and then on Sunday was a play day, but we are at an embassy suite, so there's always a happy hour in the evenings, and I joined Kevin there for a happy hour. Oh right when I got from visiting with cousins actually Cousins I have met through a family reunion.
John Brandt:Oh yeah, michael and Teresa. I forgot that you went to visit them. So okay, so now also traveling. When does your day end? I like when the repositories you know come around and kick you out. When's the last call, I guess?
Kathleen Brandt:Most of them are around four. Then, as far as the pull records, it seems that at least that's what I've been finding Maybe once 4.30. I don't know about Library of Virginia, do you know? Was it 5.00, kevin?
Kevin Spire:Yeah, they close the doors at 5.00. But you're right to pull records. It's usually 4.00, maybe 4.30. But they're shoving this out by 5.00.
John Brandt:Okay, yeah, I was wondering. I worked at the National Archives locally but I didn't know if they had a drop dead date where they start rounding people up and saying, put your books back in and the stuff you're getting are those checkoutable books or a lot of them just like no, they stay in a repository and you have to wear white gloves to use them.
Kathleen Brandt:No, you can check them out, especially if you live in Virginia and you have the Virginia card. Kevin and I don't get to do that, so we had to do it there. But we can do it in a library loan, which is one of Kevin's things that you're going to do. Right, kevin, you need to do an interlibrary loan on a particular book, right?
Kevin Spire:Yes, yeah, there's a book I discovered that Des Moines does not have, but I can get it through interlibrary loan, which is great.
John Brandt:So they'll send it to Des Moines for you.
Kevin Spire:Yeah, from well. If it doesn't come from Virginia, it'll come by some other library that's in closer proximity to Des Moines.
John Brandt:You know they'll check that out for me. Oh, that's interesting. Okay, so you'll go to a local repository, as so it's. Am I understanding that right?
Kathleen Brandt:No, it could be anywhere. Actually it's called WorldCat or Internet Library Loan. It could be any other library that will ship their books or their microfilm and we could just order it. It comes to the library and then, when it gets to the library, we can use it.
John Brandt:You can access it through any of your local library. Right, I would say we're going to go repository to repository but that's even more convenient.
Kathleen Brandt:Yeah, absolutely.
Kevin Spire:Yeah but there are some things at those repositories that they don't lend out, that you have to look at there, and those of course, are like original manuscripts, original documents, those types of things.
John Brandt:Any documents labeled top secret? Yeah, go ahead.
Kevin Spire:Yeah, one of the things I stumbled onto was when we were at the Museum of History and Culture. There was some documentation there for a personal brick wall that I've been researching on for myself, and I just happened to put my supposed ancestor's name in the catalog to see what would come up if it would. And lo and behold, there was something. It was a handwritten diary from a man by the name of Tobias Lear who was personal secretary to George Washington at the Mount Vernon in the state. Wow, and here was this little document you opened, with these very delicate pages of his own handwriting in there talking about how he did not trust Benedict Arnold and he told Washington he shouldn't trust him.
John Brandt:Oh, that's amazing. That is very good.
Kathleen Brandt:Did you get a chance to take a page, every picture of every page on that one?
Kevin Spire:Yes.
Kathleen Brandt:I did. You were going to take a picture.
Kevin Spire:Yes, I did Fantastic. I got a little transcription that came with it where someone quoted in a book article or something, and they quoted quite a few of it because the script and stuff is kind of tricky to read, so a lot of it's transcribed.
Kathleen Brandt:So what basically, john? We have spent seven days taking pictures and doing lots of citations, as a good genealogist should always do. We have been copying the links and the citations and making sure we know where we got our data from and when we go home that's when we finish and do the hard work again, because this is what I call grab and go Right. And you know, we are just grabbing some things that may not even be directly, but it might be a lead, so we get to analyze it when we go back to the home offices.
John Brandt:So just collect as much as you can and then sort it when you get it home.
Kathleen Brandt:Yes, because we can't necessarily get this. Like I said, it's not readily available from Key as a city or the money Right.
John Brandt:Did you meet the people Like do you know the people that when you go to the repositories in the National Archives? Kathleen, I know you've dealt with a whole bunch of different ones, but I guess my question is is if I'm going there, what are the people like? Because I would be intimidated going to a repository on my own because I would know nothing about really how to pull records, and are they going to treat me like you know a Rube that just came off the street and doesn't know? Or how are you treated?
Kathleen Brandt:Well, they can look at you and know that you're a Rube that came just off the street. Not me personally, me, not me.
John Brandt:Yes.
Kathleen Brandt:We were classified as professional consultants.
John Brandt:Oh, they could tell as you walked in. I'm sure that you were professional people.
Kathleen Brandt:Actually I had called the Library of Congress beforehand and when I got the guy he was looking at me and said you're supposed to come on Saturday. I was looking for you because that was the original plan, but I did say Saturday for Monday and so he knew who I was and he was available to help us.
John Brandt:He was calling ahead Would you suggest that for anybody who's planning a trip not a trip necessarily 1,800 miles away, but a trip even to a local repository, or even if they're headed to, let's say, the National Archives in Kansas City and it's only a 10-minute drive for me, but it might be a 30-minute drive, Should they call ahead.
Kathleen Brandt:You should know what their holdings are. You should know what their policies are. You should know it's always nice if you call ahead to find out what they have and to check out their websites and when you go to these, hang on, hold on.
John Brandt:No, no, no, you hang on.
Kathleen Brandt:Okay, I'm going for me. Who's running this?
John Brandt:You wait.
Kathleen Brandt:You wait? Wait, I'm sorry.
John Brandt:This is the only time this could possibly happen again. This is the only time I could possibly have. I'm going to mute your mic. I'm reclaiming my time. I'm reclaiming my time. I'm reclaiming my time you wait. No, my question was is there a procedure? Did you have to set up a specific ID for each of the repositories and fill out like I'm assuming they're looking for ID, so do they have like a thing that you have to do when you go there every time and log in or something?
Kevin Spire:So our experiences were different, so I'm going to let Kevin talk about his and then I'll talk to you about mine, yeah, so like when I went to the Library of Congress, for me to be able to go in, use the materials, be in the reading room, that sort of thing I had to get a pass, an ID. There was a little form to fill out with my name, address and phone number Basically that was pretty much it and then show them my state issued ID, my driver's license, and then they gave me a little library card and then also had a library card number on it that you would use to request your materials with, so that they could tag the material with you.
John Brandt:Okay, and that doesn't cost anything, right.
Kevin Spire:No, that was free.
John Brandt:Okay, yeah, thank you taxpayers. Yeah, thank you taxpayers, indeed.
Kathleen Brandt:Okay, kathleen. Well, mine was different because I already had all these IDs, but all of them had expired during the pandemic, so all I normally did was just show them my original ID when she put them. You've already done all the paperwork and they just issue a more updated one. They once they verify your data Mine was probably two minutes long at that. They didn't even take a new picture of me, so I have short hair and I look five years younger.
John Brandt:Okay, there's a plus right there. Right, Right. That's all I think I have. Do you guys want to add anything? Kathleen, Is there something you really want to mention?
Kathleen Brandt:No, it's been a fun trip. I don't normally travel with a person who also works for A3 genealogy. Kevin's one of the few that has. I've traveled with, actually At least for the whole period. Sometimes it might join me for a day or two and that's it. So this has been a lot of fun. Plus, I had a show for the entire time.
John Brandt:I know. I assumed I was getting texts and I understood that she was in transit, so I knew that she put you into the driver's seat.
Kevin Spire:Oh yes, these keys are yours. I don't want to see them again.
John Brandt:Yeah, if you knew, if I had a dollar for every time. I heard that right.
Kevin Spire:No, the trip has been really good and for myself, having not been to these repositories before now and having Kathleen to kind of guide me a little bit and kind of point me in some directions, it's given me some confidence so that when I do come back again I know right where to go and how to prepare myself. Excellent, Because I will be coming back at some point.
John Brandt:Very cool, very cool, well good. Hopefully it was a generally successful trip for your clients. It seems like it was.
Kathleen Brandt:So I do want you to know that all the clients are A3 genealogy clients and Kevin is a paid intern. Our internship program is a paid internship program because they are working with live clients and one of the fun things was just talking about what are the resources that he has to A3 genealogy wise here. You know the blog, the podcast and whatever other, and just me. All of our interns can call me at any time, especially when they're working on a project, whether it's for A3 genealogy or for their own business, because the idea through our program is that they're building their own clientele, finding their own niche, and they can figure out where they want to fall in, and I don't. Does Kevin have any questions or answers or anything to share? No, kevin do you?
John Brandt:No, down to a minute. Kevin doesn't have any questions or answers. I'm good, I'm good at this point. We can do, we can schedule pickups if you'd like to, and maybe actually that's a good idea is that we should do around when the information is collated. We probably should do an update on when the reports basically are constructed with the information that you've collected. That might be an interesting conversation, it might not, I don't know. But what I need to do is Kevin, thanks very much. I appreciate you driving, being a chauffeur, but also stopping by here and letting me do this, letting us get this recording done. It's been, it's been a lot of fun and it's a pleasure meeting you, and thank you so much. And Kevin, do you have any last words?
Kathleen Brandt:Yes, of course I do. Thanks, kevin, for joining me on the road and John thanks for organizing this.
John Brandt:Okay, I'm going to think about the podcast, so stop by our Facebook page at Hit the Bricks and let us know.