We've got an intriguing genealogy mystery on our hands, as we chat with Bonnie Flatt from Illinois about her brick wall: Her DIY research reveals her great-grandfather, Richard Bush. Born in 1834 in either Illinois or Indiana, Richard's origins remain elusive, and Bonnie's quest for answers has led her to explore various strategies, such as understanding the naming conventions of the time period, investigating land records, and examining military records, wills, deeds, and probates.
Elusive Ancestor Research Tips
Unscramble the family using and analyzing the following:
Need More Information visit a3Genealogy blog: Elusive Ancestor Research tips and Hints posted 25 Jun 2023: linktr.ee/a3genealogy
Be sure to bookmark linktr.ee/hittinthebricks for your one stop access to Kathleen Brandt, the host of Hittin' the Bricks with Kathleen. And, visit us on YouTube: Off the Wall with Kathleen John and Chewey video recorded specials.
Hittin' the Bricks is produced through the not-for-profit, 501c3 TracingAncestors.org.
Thanks to MyHeritage for their generous support to Hittin' the Bricks with Kathleen! Follow us on social media and subscribe to HTB with Kathleen in order to enter your name in our monthly MyHeritage Complete Package giveaway starting Jan 2024!
We've got an intriguing genealogy mystery on our hands, as we chat with Bonnie Flatt from Illinois about her brick wall: Her DIY research reveals her great-grandfather, Richard Bush. Born in 1834 in either Illinois or Indiana, Richard's origins remain elusive, and Bonnie's quest for answers has led her to explore various strategies, such as understanding the naming conventions of the time period, investigating land records, and examining military records, wills, deeds, and probates.
Elusive Ancestor Research Tips
Unscramble the family using and analyzing the following:
Need More Information visit a3Genealogy blog: Elusive Ancestor Research tips and Hints posted 25 Jun 2023: linktr.ee/a3genealogy
Be sure to bookmark linktr.ee/hittinthebricks for your one stop access to Kathleen Brandt, the host of Hittin' the Bricks with Kathleen. And, visit us on YouTube: Off the Wall with Kathleen John and Chewey video recorded specials.
Hittin' the Bricks is produced through the not-for-profit, 501c3 TracingAncestors.org.
Thanks to MyHeritage for their generous support to Hittin' the Bricks with Kathleen! Follow us on social media and subscribe to HTB with Kathleen in order to enter your name in our monthly MyHeritage Complete Package giveaway starting Jan 2024!
Ladies and gentlemen from the depths of flyover country in the heartland of America, the Kansas City on the other side of the mighty moe, welcome to Hittin' the Bricks with Kathleen, the genealogy show that features your questions and her answers. I'm John, your Humblehubby host, and on this episode we'll be talking to Bonnie Flatt, from the Bray state, the land of Lincoln, the great state of Illinois. So let's start Hittin' the Bricks. Oops, everybody just disappeared. Everybody's back, well, okay. so welcome to Hittin' the Bricks with Kathleen. Bonnie, here we are.
Kathleen Brandt:Hi, how are y'all? Oh good, Well, live in.
John Brandt:In Zoom. John Live and in Zoom.
Kathleen Brandt:I won't even ask what you're drinking over there.
John Brandt:Since the pandemic. Okay, so Bonnie Bonnie Flatt, is it FLATT? That's correct.
Kathleen Brandt:That's correct.
John Brandt:Yes.
Kathleen Brandt:So Bonnie is from Illinois. Okay, and I'm still confused, bonnie, where you're from, but it has something to do with Buckner, benton and the county of Franklin or Franklin County rather.
Bonnie Flatt:That is correct. I live in Buckner or just south of Buckner, which is just 500 and some people, so Benton is where I work and I did live at one time and it's all in the county of Franklin.
Kathleen Brandt:And you are a bookkeeper, is that?
Bonnie Flatt:correct I am Now. I've been a bookkeeper at a law firm for 28 years and they are closing, So now I'm working for the county treasure.
Kathleen Brandt:So what exactly is your brick wall, Bonnie?
Bonnie Flatt:My great-grandfather. I know his name. I know nothing about you know his family, i mean I know from him down. I don't know anything above him. I know he was born in 1834 in Illinois, with parentheses, because one of the census records say Indiana but most of them say Illinois. I know that he then moved to Missouri and married a girl from Illinois in Missouri. I can go through all his kids and down, but I can't go up.
Kathleen Brandt:So were you able to find the marriage record of this Bush And the one you were referring to is Richard, that's correct.
Bonnie Flatt:I think I found the marriage record of him, not the record itself but the indexed thing on ancestry In Missouri. Yes, Okay evidently. Then I have the 1900 census, so that might be what I got it off of.
Kathleen Brandt:Okay, that makes a little bit more sense to me, because I did not see it in the Missouri marriage records at all. Yeah, did you know your grandfather?
Bonnie Flatt:No, well, my grandparents were dead before I was born.
Kathleen Brandt:And the grandfather was Edward Franklin Bush. Is that correct? That's correct. And it is his father, richard Bush, that you are stuck on. There are lots of reasons why, bonnie. So I do want to walk this through, and she actually has. Bonnie has his second issues. That's tied into that. What was the second?
Bonnie Flatt:question that you had. I did a DNA on my dad and I did it with family tree DNA And with it I have a zero distance relative of his named Mark Bush and I can't get to the connection. He doesn't go up high enough, i don't go up high enough. So I know that's a zero distance. So I know there is a common ancestor for sure.
Kathleen Brandt:So Bonnie's father has taken the Y DNA test on family tree DNA. He's matching with a guy by the name of Mark, or I should say again, her father matched on the Y with Mark, and Mark does put a partial tree at least some names up there, and one of Bonnie's concerns was that this person does have Indiana up there. Is that correct? Yes, so I want to walk you through a plan Now, bonnie. I want to make sure you're clear that I can't solve this in 60 minutes or 90 minutes.
John Brandt:She's lying, Bonnie. Actually, she's already solved all this.
Bonnie Flatt:That's the deal, i know she's solved it.
John Brandt:I've got to find it out. And she just laughs. She laughs at night and rubs her hands together Because they'll never know That is not true.
Bonnie Flatt:They'll never know.
John Brandt:They're going to have to find it all themselves. They'll have to go to research on their own.
Kathleen Brandt:That is not true, bonnie. You will get a copy of absolutely everything I found, which is not much, but a lot of places that tell me what your issue was, and your biggest hint was the DNA match of Mark Bush. So just tell me a little bit more about your research on Richard.
Bonnie Flatt:He's married to Eliza Ann Watson. I have all of his children's names and I know year of birth maybe not date of birth, and then I can go down those children And that's how I've got some of my cousins fourth, fifth, whatever, down through the great aunts or grand aunts, i guess.
Kathleen Brandt:Well, how many children do you have that Richard and Eliza have? Okay, seven. Okay, that's good. She came seven children for loving. What is the oldest child that you have?
Bonnie Flatt:Eliza Jane. Elizabeth Eliza Jane. She was born in 1858.
Kathleen Brandt:And that's where we are going to divide our answers. Bonnie, the first two that children that you have is Eliza and George. Is that correct? That's correct If she really had Eliza and George and that was in Shannon County, missouri. and then she had another seven children. according to the 1870 and the 1880, were now up to nine children In the 1860 census that Richard Bush had two children born in Missouri and those two children do not show up in the 1870 census. Do you know why?
Bonnie Flatt:Well, I thought they were Eliza Jane's husband's children, accidentally named Bush on the ancestry.
Kathleen Brandt:Except when we do the matching of the names, what we find is she has a Susan and Ellen, a Fanny Mary, martha, a Richard and Eliza and a George F. Those are seven children right there, okay.
Bonnie Flatt:George F. If you'll notice, george isn't mentioned at the top, and that is actually my grandfather. That they've got is George F instead of Edward F.
Kathleen Brandt:Do you know why that mix-up happened?
Bonnie Flatt:I just assumed. You know, i don't know this. When a census taker comes in, oh, they talked about everything in the book. Then the census taker got mixed up is what I have always assumed, because those are the only two places, and that is my grandfather's birth year.
Kathleen Brandt:Yes, George F, number seven right, Not number two, which was born in 1860. It appears to me that in 1860, they could not have named a George that wasn't born until 15 years later. Right, there were two different families. Also, if you look in the 1870 census, they did not move from Illinois to Missouri until somewhere between 1866 and 1867, when Mary Martha was born, unless they were going back and forth.
Bonnie Flatt:That's what I thought because the 1900 census gets where they said they were married in Missouri. but then Susan was born in Illinois in 1865, and Martha was born in Missouri again. Green County, illinois, is not that far from the Missouri border. It's a little above St Louis and to the right east, i'm sorry, and Shannon is west and down five or six counties probably.
Kathleen Brandt:When you said to the right, I'm sure John just got tickled because that east-west thing drives him nuts out here in the Midwest, Not anymore.
John Brandt:Not anymore. I've been converted. That was difficult in the east coast where I grew up. You say to the right, to the left and out. Here they give directions by north, south, east and west.
Bonnie Flatt:So when you're looking at a map straight on, it's to the right or to the left.
John Brandt:Well, actually, when I was a kid did land surveying and my nickname on the crew was Wrong Way, because north was whatever direction I was facing at the time, and so I got us lost more than once, and that was before GPS.
Kathleen Brandt:And you were still hired.
John Brandt:While I was hired. There's a reason why I retired from teaching recently and not land surveying.
Kathleen Brandt:That would make sense. So I am going to suggest a few things and we're going to start just with-.
John Brandt:So this is two families. This is-.
Kathleen Brandt:It appears as though there are two families, and there's another reason why I'm going to say that. So, as a professional genealogist, one of the first things we do is challenge all of our assumptions. How can I disprove what I'm thinking With every document? ask yourself three questions. I make my interns do it. I make my researchers do it.
Bonnie Flatt:It's like Make sure I spin it. What is this?
Kathleen Brandt:There are reasons to believe that there is another Richard with either Eliza or Elizabeth's name. One of the questions that came to mind was the double and triple use of names. Edward, richard, wiley Franklin and Wesley were used over and over. Wiley Richard became Richard, wiley George became George Franklin and Frank. I saw that he also had a brother, wiley Richard Bush. As I was researching your grandfather, i saw he also had a Wiley Richard Bush as a brother, married to Nancy Turner. There is a third name that's connecting almost four of your family members and that is Charlie Moore. Who is Charlie?
Bonnie Flatt:Charlie Moore is my dad's oldest sister's husband, Agnes and Charlie Moore.
Kathleen Brandt:So that's why he is on everybody's not everybody's, but quite a few death certificates Probably yeah, The Moore family comes in.
Bonnie Flatt:I told you I'd done research on all of Franklin's siblings. Well, they're also married into the Moors down through there and they relate it also to Charlie.
Kathleen Brandt:And it does seem like they moved out from different places together. They moved around quite a bit together.
Kathleen Brandt:So, Charlie is integral in some part because he was the first one to say oh no, she's a Watson. In the records, of course, at this point we see the Watson's living with the Bushes and two different families. What I am finding is that you can easily follow your family in Arkansas, clay and Randolph County. And then I noticed that in Missouri again, you have three or four counties Reynolds, shannon and Butler. Yours, oh no, you also have in Iron County.
Bonnie Flatt:That's what I was thinking, it's.
Kathleen Brandt:St Francois, and he was in coal mining then, yeah, richard, who was her?
John Brandt:If we can take a short break. I've used all my whiteout up on my screen changing the names as we are going, And so I kind of need to clean the screen off and start over again.
Kathleen Brandt:We're still talking about Richard John in 18.
John Brandt:I'm never going to get this whiteout off of my screen. Just keep going, just keep going.
Kathleen Brandt:So the biggest flaw we have here, buddy, because you have done great research in Arkansas and in Missouri, you are not going to find Richard's family until you figure out where he's from in Illinois, And you can't skip a step. However, DNA says he is pretty much from Indiana before Illinois his ancestors- His ancestors?
Bonnie Flatt:yes, I was aware of that His ancestors were from Indiana. He was born in Illinois but I came from Indiana. That was my blood I got.
Kathleen Brandt:And that's why I said your DNA was your biggest clue, because Mark put you right there and Mark named a person named John Wesley Bush. John Wesley Bush is from Warren County, indiana. OK, what can I do with that information? Not much except look for more documents. So at that point I turned to the land records. Have you searched for land records?
Kathleen Brandt:No, but I've got John Wesley's family tree up a ways, so there is an 1860 land record with Richard Bush and they are in Reynolds County Missouri And the key to land records is understanding why they have the land And that particular piece of land that he was granted is because of something called Scripp-Warrent Act 1855. That warrant was the Cherokee Removal Act. Richard was part of the militia and in the warrants it tells you he was in Illinois from Warren County, indiana. Now there is a lot of tying you need to do here because there are several Richards. So let's talk about naming conventions.
Kathleen Brandt:Every son may have named his first child after the father. So if there were six sons, there are six Richards about the same age. So that is also why I question that first one of 1860 who had the land record. And I'm not saying that's not your Richard, i'm saying the children aren't adding up with that woman. We don't know the scenario That has to be fleshed out. As you're looking for Richard in Illinois, i'm going to suggest you look in the Palestine Illinois area Also. It does not mean this is the correct one. It's a great place to start.
John Brandt:So she's going to be eliminating Richards.
Bonnie Flatt:That is correct, John. Just a fun fact. Eliza has a brother named George Wiley.
Kathleen Brandt:Yes, because your family wants to kill us. The Wiley's and Watson's and Exactly, and Wiley often can be a William And my family, our Wiley, is actually a Tobbe. He went by Tobbe in Tobias. His real name was Wiley in the family Bible. So the first step, is.
John Brandt:He was running from the law, though, wasn't he?
Kathleen Brandt:He was not John, but thank you.
John Brandt:That wasn't the criminal side.
Kathleen Brandt:No, that was not the criminal side, that was the master blacksmith.
John Brandt:Was it your mother or your father's side, which is the criminal side?
Kathleen Brandt:You are absolutely a horrid man.
Bonnie Flatt:Neither side, we know of You are a horrid man. That's all I have to say.
John Brandt:I did not start until her generation.
Bonnie Flatt:Oh, i see, Okay, he was a horrible horrible human being Wiley.
Kathleen Brandt:I keep him around for no reason except entertainment. So, bonnie, we want to make sure that you're not putting too much faith in census records. We don't know who answered the door and gave the census taker the information. I'm aware of that. Yes, yes, i'm glad in mind.
Kathleen Brandt:The second step, as I said, would be the land records, so you want to pull as many as you can. That particular website is the Bureau of Land Management, blm, glo, the General Land Office, because it doesn't just show you the certificate, as it does on an ancestry. It gives you more information of how they got it. You also will want to order the original record which is in National Archives, for at least the one, richard Bush that I saw, who got land in Reynolds County in 1860. And the reason is because he has to give more information about his family firsthand. So it is a primary source. And again, i'll send you the link that I already have on that land record. But it doesn't mean that's the only one. I just stopped when I found that connection to Warren County, indiana, which was the same as John Wesley, which was the DNA match.
Bonnie Flatt:Is that the county Williamsport is in. That is correct.
John Brandt:Bonnie putting the dots together.
Kathleen Brandt:I know.
John Brandt:Yeah, I had him.
Bonnie Flatt:I had him John Wesley as being board in Williamsport, Indiana, but I didn't have the county down there.
John Brandt:So is Bonnie going to get to go to the courthouse basements and go digging through the dust or um plats or any fun stuff like that?
Kathleen Brandt:So John happens to know, bonnie, that I love doing that, so for me it's a holiday And John is thinking that everyone loves walking down these, these creaky steps and dark and dusty places to stare at books. I think it's the best part about genealogy, but everyone doesn't love that, john. The third thing, of course, is the DNA. It sounds like you have done already quite a bit of work on John Wesley. So, beside following your DNA, um number four, following John Wesley's family group, you want to see any siblings that he might have had, or any siblings his father might have had. You also want to make sure, as I mentioned earlier, to pull those military records. Someone served in the civil war. They might have been living in Missouri at the time.
Kathleen Brandt:Remember, the Cherokee removal was before the civil war. That was militia. Militia records are with the state, not with the federal government. It might be at the county level. After you've done all of that, that's when you're ready to figure out who was the father of Richard. But you have a long ways to go before you can get to Richard. Okay, bonnie, don't cheat yourself. Don't cheat the dead people. I want you to make sure you work out Illinois first. Those marriage records might not be there, but the wills, the deeds, the probates will all give you hints. There is another neighbor side, charlie Moore, that I have a big question on, and that is who is Elizabeth?
Bonnie Flatt:Myers, me too I have that same question. I thought she might be a relative. Okay, my thought was always that Richard, being 18 and his brother being 17, i assume, was living with her in the 1850 senses and kind of working for her, and I thought she might be a relative of the family. And I actually I thought both of his parents might have been dead at that time, but I can't, since I can't find them, we don't know, they don't know, we don't know.
Kathleen Brandt:What we know is someone got a land patent. We know they got that land patent for Reynolds. We know there's another repeat of these George Richard names living with someone who's born in 1801, which is this Elizabeth Myers. We also know enough about Eliza. We can follow her because she's living in the family with the Watson's. I actually saw her in the census record with the Watson's. So those are just way too many questions to ask before you can get to the question of who are the parents of Richard. But yeah, i don't think you need to do that much more. In Missouri You have full families. That was one of my points was did you unscrambler all of these families? We know that one brother had a child by the name of Laura and we need to make sure you're getting especially death records, because the death records are going to tell you who they somebody thought the parents were. And Charlie Morris will probably show up again on a couple more because he signs a lot of deaths are taken.
John Brandt:I was starting to develop a theory about Mr Moore, and I mean the fact that he was present at so many deaths. Should we be? This sounds like you might have an issue in your family.
Bonnie Flatt:Well, actually, when Charlie and my Agnes got married, they lived on a joining land with Frank Bush, which is my grandfather, and they were always right there, real close to the family, you know.
John Brandt:I didn't mean to imply he was a murderer.
Kathleen Brandt:No sure, john, sure, you didn't imply that at all.
John Brandt:At what point did he murder them?
Kathleen Brandt:I'm sorry, what I did find interesting was the lack of death information for Richard Bush of 1836. So, bonnie, what we noticed there is no death certificate, there's no obituary, nothing. Did you contact the local county papers and the local county libraries for any obituaries for the time frame of Edward Richard? He disappeared. what? 1880 to 1890? or Yeah, richard W.
Bonnie Flatt:W. Yeah, that's all I've got.
Kathleen Brandt:We also see as Wiley Richard. We see him both ways also.
Bonnie Flatt:No, i didn't see him. We're OK. I'll have to help for that, because I didn't see him as Wiley Richard. I seen his son as Wiley Richard.
Kathleen Brandt:That is correct. Yes, his son is both ways. I'm sorry.
Bonnie Flatt:The only way I ever see him is Richard, or Richard W.
Kathleen Brandt:For some reason I have him also as a Richard, also known as a Wiley, So I must have found a record that he might have been a Wiley also.
Bonnie Flatt:I kind of wondered if he wasn't Richard William. Now let me tell you my thought on that. My dad is named after his dad and his granddad. Ok, my dad is the second son. My uncle, kurt William Curtis, was the first son, and so I thought they might have got William from the W in Richard W. But I don't know, i could never. I've never found where they might have got Kurt from. That's interesting.
Kathleen Brandt:So it's just kind of like that John Wesley. Where did Wesley come from? I don't know if They were very strict to the naming conventions. The older generations might have been like Richard Wiley of 1836. That one sticks because you have that Edward Richard, you have also a Wiley Richard and then you have Richard W. Richard is a major thing And if I was doing this research with Bush being such a populated name, i would probably first start with attacking all Richards in the right counties and states, because you have, like I said, our still to just work on unscrambling out of all the bushes here or there. How do they fit in? for sure, not what we're assuming. What documents support what you're thinking? So that's where you're starting, but military records will really get you started, as well as the land analysis. If you're not sure about the land analysis or military records, there are things on the A3 genealogy blog site that can help you. That is.
John Brandt:Shameless plug brought to you by A3 genealogy.
Kathleen Brandt:Yes, it is my company. And on the blog, I don't know if you've seen the blog of A3 genealogy No.
John Brandt:A3 genealogy, brought to you by A3 genealogy.
Kathleen Brandt:That is the letter A, the number three, genealogy. Thosepacescom And that blog is designed to be totally educational, to get you started. In addition, there are podcasts or trainings all over you know, for free, like on family search, where even professionals take these classes to find out more resources for our location and our topic. Illinois and Indiana has a very fun relationship. Their relationship even goes back to the Quakers togetherness. So you have to be able to be really open of who are they, what was the prevalent church and what were the communities. So you're working on cluster communities as you're going through Illinois.
John Brandt:So a little bit of cleanup and then straightening out some Richards and Bonnie's well on her way.
Kathleen Brandt:Bonnie's well on her way. All I have given her is more work to do. That's right. But the best part.
John Brandt:It is one of her favorite things to do.
Kathleen Brandt:One of the best parts is Bonnie knows that her father is actually a bush, at least an American bush, and is a historically a bush. A lot of people come through a three genealogy or through the podcast and they find out they're not who they thought they were ever. You know they're, they have the wrong surname or they have the wrong religion. So these you know that your father's line really is Bush, from Indiana, and there is a migratory past that we could talk about later. But there's no reason to put you through that torture right now, because he probably didn't start. His ancestors came from somewhere else outside of Indiana. Usually that's the case Absolutely. So, john, do you have anything to add? Or, first of all, let me ask Bonnie Bonnie, do you have any other questions for?
Bonnie Flatt:me The one thing that I found, that I can't find where he was. I'm assuming that Richard was disabled in the military because he is never with the family but he is still living And there was a pension involved. I've gotten some of that information, but I'm not really clear on a lot of that information.
Kathleen Brandt:So that is the records that you're going to get an order, because I saw that pension. That pension is with the USCT, which is the United States Color Troop I've seen that one also And so, and there's a Richard Bush and his entire family, which have some of the same names as the White family. But then you also have pension records that may or may not be yours. So they also gave lands to those who not only served in the military but also in the militia to do the Cherokee Removal Project. Those records are here in Kansas City At least many of them are, because we have the National Archive branch here for Missouri. Bonnie, that's one of the major things I was wanting to mention and I'm glad you brought that up. One of the things you must do is get those original documents. They're going to tell you a lot more, ok, and either put aside a little budget or plan vacations around it. Where else would you go? OK, any other questions?
Bonnie Flatt:Not that I can think of. You've been a big help. Well, you know, i'm just proud that what I have done so far is you ain't said, oh, this is wrong, and this is wrong, and you know so I'm really proud to be there.
John Brandt:Yeah, it sounds like you've done really good research And you knew when to stop.
Bonnie Flatt:My parents were both the youngest in each of their families and they both had quite a family, So they were the ones that on Sunday, you know, after church, we would go to visit all the other relatives. I'm not saying nobody ever came to visit us, but usually it was my mom and dad who went to visit all the others, which is partially what got me interested in family tree to begin with, And I made groups on Facebook and have just invited all the relatives that I can find under each. You know, like our Bush one is my grandmother and grandfather's family Got it together Together, yes, on both sides. So then we share pictures and I try to, you know, just keep up with everybody Virtual reunions.
John Brandt:That's really positive.
Kathleen Brandt:That's excellent, actually, and I enjoy that, and make sure you're writing little blurbs as you're finding things and engaging your family to help you research, because you have a big family.
John Brandt:Well, I think that you have another question for us, John. No, i don't have any questions, or all the questions will occur at 2 am, as then their regularly scheduled nightmare time where you wake up at two o'clock in the morning. Why didn't I ask this?
Kathleen Brandt:That's why I always send me an email. Thank you.
John Brandt:Bonnie, i'll text you her phone number. You can call it direct. It's OK And OK. So, bonnie.
Kathleen Brandt:I will be sending you a, a photo. It shouldn't be any different than what you have, except I will be giving you some tips on where to go to find the land and the military.
John Brandt:And there'll be no notes as well. Right Then we will say thank you so much, bonnie, for coming by. We really do appreciate you coming to hit in the bricks. It's Kathleen, thank you for helping.
Kathleen Brandt:Thanks, Bonnie, and have a great evening You too.
John Brandt:Bye, bye, ok, good, bonnie's out. Can you believe that guy murdered her entire family and just followed them from place to place, murdering them and then signing the death certificate? It's a horror story and she takes it so well.
Kathleen Brandt:Can you please bring me the chop that you've been drinking out of us so I can see if it.
John Brandt:Well, congratulations, you've made it to the end of another episode. Thanks so much for staying. Thanks to Bonnie for spending some time with us. Thanks to Chewy Chewbacca Brandt, our part time SEO developer and full time kitchen floor obstacle for his unwavering lack of interest in anything we're doing. The theme song for hitting the bricks was written and performed by Tony Fisnuckle and the Mosquitoes Watch for their next appearance at the ocean. At the end of the lane, you can find us on Apple, spotify and, of course, buzzsprout. We'd love to hear what you think about the podcast, so stop by our Facebook page at Hit in the Bricks and let us know.